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Good unit sizes for Epic Knights?

 Post subject: Good unit sizes for Epic Knights?
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 6:36 pm 
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Hi, I'm presently doing an Epic Imperial Guard army, and have been for a number of years. A project that gathered dust for a prolonged period, but I'm back at it! I was looking at the article from White Dwarf 126 ref the Knights and this page here:

https://www.hiveworldterra.co.uk/clanbe ... _TLart.htm

shows that there is another one in WD 182 that gives details on Knight Households (Knights Errant and Knights Lancers). I don't have the later article, I could pick it up, but thought I'd ask if anyone knew if it gave details on unit numbers? WD126 mentions 0-4 Knight detachments of 4 or more Knight Lancers or Paladins. It also gives details of 0-1 Warden detachment with 3 or more Wardens. What would be recommended, units of 5? I've got a fair few miniatures, and am picking up more, but wanted to get it right.

There are also the Knight errant, Lancer, Crusader, Castellan, Baron. Does anyone know where the rules were printed up for them, any ideas for unit sizes? I understand you can go as big as you like, but wanted fair / proportionally correct units. Any advice appreciated. T/Y


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 Post subject: Re: Good unit sizes for Epic Knights?
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 8:48 pm 
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Well, I've just looked in my old Epic Space Marine/titan Legions 2nd edition boxed sets and found all the cards for the Knights. The cards represent a typical Knight force according to what the rules for them say. The rules for the knights in 2nd edition are found in the Titan Legions game in the Codex Titanicus book.

The way they are set up is you take a company card, which can be accompanied by up to five support cards and one special card.

So what came in the game for Knights is :

1 Company card with 6 Knight Paladin's and 1 Knight Paladin HQ unit. Each unit of 3 paladins was called a detachment.

1 support card of 3 Knight Crusaders
1 support card of 3 Knight Lancers
1 support card of 3 Knight Errants
1 support card of 3 Knight Paladin
1 support card of 3 Knight Castellan

Each support card is also a detachment

1 Special card of a Baron.

When they added in the older knights to 2nd edition, they gave the rules for them in the Citadel Journal issue #1

They were organized the same way as above. So you got:

1 company card with 3 Praetorian Knights and 3 Centurion knights and 1 Lord.

2 Support Card with 3 Praetorian Knights on each card
1 Support Card with 3 Centurions

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 Post subject: Re: Good unit sizes for Epic Knights?
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 9:50 pm 
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Epical wrote:
Hi, I'm presently doing an Epic Imperial Guard army, and have been for a number of years. A project that gathered dust for a prolonged period, but I'm back at it! I was looking at the article from White Dwarf 126 ref the Knights and this page here:

https://www.hiveworldterra.co.uk/clanbe ... _TLart.htm

shows that there is another one in WD 182 that gives details on Knight Households (Knights Errant and Knights Lancers). I don't have the later article, I could pick it up, but thought I'd ask if anyone knew if it gave details on unit numbers? WD126 mentions 0-4 Knight detachments of 4 or more Knight Lancers or Paladins. It also gives details of 0-1 Warden detachment with 3 or more Wardens. What would be recommended, units of 5? I've got a fair few miniatures, and am picking up more, but wanted to get it right.

There are also the Knight errant, Lancer, Crusader, Castellan, Baron. Does anyone know where the rules were printed up for them, any ideas for unit sizes? I understand you can go as big as you like, but wanted fair / proportionally correct units. Any advice appreciated. T/Y


I have both those WD you mention. Give me a ping for them.

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 Post subject: Re: Good unit sizes for Epic Knights?
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 2:07 pm 
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Thanks for that. I've got various bits of rulesets here, I think everything from 3rd edition onwards, including two boxes of the Armies of the Imperium, which have nothing in there ref Knights (other than the Grey Knights!). Thnks for the info though, and for the offer Hybrid. I'm in UK, so what I'll do is I'll hunt down the mags on E-Bay and also that ruleset Now I know what I'm looking for!. I've got a fair few more miniatures than that, but will organise them properly. You know I thought in threes was right, but when it talked of 0-4 that seemed at odds. thanks again, i clearly came to the right place. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Good unit sizes for Epic Knights?
PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 2:48 pm 
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I'm just looking at this some more, I can spend ages just staring at stuff before I start doing anything. I've just primed 16 Warhounds, and they took me ages, stupid hours, to get to that stage. Just waiting on some Isopropanol to turn up before I get them going (will be using Vallejo Liquid Metal paint). I'll be basing these knights up on the old Games Workshop Hexagon bases. I did think of the round 25mm, as it's nice for all the walkers to be on the same shape as they scale up in size to the Titans, but 25mm round is just a bit too small for some of the Knights due to their feet position. The GW hexagon are slightly wider on a certain axis and I perceive, on average actually take up the same overall base area, so fair for the game.

Anyway, I'm wafflin on, appreciate you looking that up for me and typing it out. Reading through it again, I'll look towards grouping them as per your reference to the later models, into a Noble House. Then maybe do two separate houses. The White Dwarf 126 article mentions 4 or more Knights per detachment, but I'll stick with them in three's as that's how the rest of the army is done. If I've got it right, understanding what you say, then

1 Company card with 6 Knight Paladin's and 1 Knight Paladin HQ unit = 7 miniatures

1 support card of 3 Knight Crusaders
1 support card of 3 Knight Lancers
1 support card of 3 Knight Errants
1 support card of 3 Knight Paladin
1 support card of 3 Knight Castellan

That's a further 15 miniatures

Then the 1 Special card of a Baron = 1 miniature

So as I read it that's 23 miniatures needed in total, per Noble House (to give all in game options). I've got a fair few, but seem to have substantial amounts of Castellan, Crusader, and Errant miniatures compared to the Paladins needed to get the above balance. Anyway, I'd best get started.


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 Post subject: Re: Good unit sizes for Epic Knights?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 5:47 am 
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Sorry Epical, I haven't looked in this thread for a while.

Yes, you've got it right. That is the way they are organized, at least according to 2nd edition Epic Titan Legions.

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 Post subject: Re: Good unit sizes for Epic Knights?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 2:19 pm 
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No, good of you to get back to me. I'm still wading through them. Likely with any new rules it will all change anyway, with whole units of just Castellan, Crusader, and Errant Knights. I'll carry on with the details you gave, and then maybe later add on larger groups of others, to account for any rules changes. Now I'm off to find some good colour scheme pictures on the internet, for when I eventually get round to painting them.


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 Post subject: Re: Good unit sizes for Epic Knights?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:43 pm 
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Which edition of Epic are you actually building for? There have been different unit sizes in different editions, e.g. in Firepower 1 for Epic 40k (3rd edition and this forum section) the Adeptus Mechanicus detachment was introduced. Let me know if you need a copy, but essentially it was Knights and Castellans, in a detachment structure of 1 command + 0-10 main force.

Interesting the ad below the rules: £1.75 per knight or any 5 for £5. Bargain!

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 Post subject: Re: Good unit sizes for Epic Knights?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:00 pm 
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Well, I've never played! I'm building up a mammoth army, and am hoping to get my roleplaying mates interested. I just want a full army, so there's plenty of choice, and I have it all covered. What I didn't want to do is paint them up and then find I'd got the numbers wrong, or made certain units in such number that they were impractical or unfair to the other player. I'm actually hoping to start at the earliest ruleset, and gradually run through them, as I missed it the first time round. Bit of a collector / hoarder so didn't want to make the same mistake as I did with Bloodbowl and think "Right, I'll have one of each miniature, a couple spare, then two each of the,...... I ended up with a team of, I think, 42 players! All painted up though, prior to me even playing a game. I've been buying and putting together my Epic army for oooohhh, 4 plus years? Painting them should take a few years as well, although I did invest in an airbrush to make it easier. i have put some paint on the Warhounds though, so there is progress!


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