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Making Chaos more Chaos-ey (experimental optional rules)

 Post subject: Making Chaos more Chaos-ey (experimental optional rules)
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 1:57 am 
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I am looking to develop some optional rules to add some more flavor back into the Epic 40k Chaos armies. One of the things I was thinking about was buffs and debuffs in the form of additions that can be bought for a detachment.

Is anyone interested in brainstorming some things with me? Primarily, I am thinking that each Chaos god would have a specific totem or religious item that could be bought for cultists and demon world detachments that would provide an advantage.

Another optional rule I was thinking was being able to buy battlefield icons that would provide power to demon detachments within a certain range but would also damage them when they were captured or destroyed.


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 Post subject: Re: Making Chaos more Chaos-ey (experimental optional rules)
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 2:32 am 
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There were some neat rules for alternate Chaos detachments and even summoning daemons onto the table during a game in one of the Firepowers.

To be honest, I was just thinking about this today or yesterday, but in a different direction: I have always felt that the Chaos army list is the one army list in Epic 40k that just feels really derivative of SM2. What I mean by that is that Chaos detachments are all way too homogenous... All the Chaos Space Marines go in one detachment list, all the daemons go in another, all the cultists go in another...

That just feels so wrong in E40k. I want detachment lists that let me mix daemons and cultists and Space Marines in as many crazy, chaotic combinations as I can dream up. That feels much more appropriate to the Chaos faction and is more in line with what makes E40k so different from other editions.

Would it help to brainstorm some mixed detachment lists as well?


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 Post subject: Re: Making Chaos more Chaos-ey (experimental optional rules)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 2:04 am 
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I'd love to read your thoughts on it! I was thinking along the same lines except I feel that Chaos Space Marines should be available as support, much like with IG. The thinking is that they would act as "advisers" to stiffen the ranks.

I am also putting forth that this forum offshoot should put together a compendium of optional rules. I have a couple more I want to post in the coming weeks that I don't feel are game breaking or going against the spirit of simplicity that makes the game so great. There's no reason why Epic 40k should be a dead rule set.


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 Post subject: Re: Making Chaos more Chaos-ey (experimental optional rules)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:04 am 
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I'd love to see a compendium of optional rules etc for this game please elaborate on your proposal.

Epic 40k is not a dead game there are fans including myself it's just not supported here like the other versions of the game unfortunately.

Great game sadly ignored.

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 Post subject: Re: Making Chaos more Chaos-ey (experimental optional rules)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:57 pm 
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I don't think it's a dead game, I just don't want it to be a dead rule set where it languishes, but I also don't want to change the basic rules which make the game so great. I think I've floated this idea before but didn't want to commit, but now I want to move forward with it. I am calling it "Epic Xtended" and I'll work with whoever wants to work with me to create and playtest new optional rules. There are so many great mechanics in other games that could easily be incorporated.

The Firepowers that were released after the rules showed that it could be adapted into a more complex and nuanced game than people give it credit for. People like Pete Ramos and T0C0 have shown us that we can make it OUR game. I think it will be a fun project. I can't promise that I'll work on it with laser-like intensity but I have a few things I've been kicking around.

Ideally the compendium would be separated into the following:

Optional Rules
* game mechanics
* specific to armies
Experimental Armies and Army List Upgrades
* balanced stats for new units as they are introduced to the game universe
*new army lists (specifically thinking of Microworld space Ratmen and making the army lists for space dwarves, demon world armies and mechanical priests of the machine god armies more widely available)
*stats for other manufacturer product lines
Scenarios & Campaign Games
* Horus Heresy
* The Crusade
Tactics
Rules Clarifications
Misc. Articles
*CommanderKarth's guide


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 Post subject: Re: Making Chaos more Chaos-ey (experimental optional rules)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:12 pm 
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This all sounds very interesting but it means a lot of work especially if you can't get other like minded fans on board. I would love to help out myself but a full time job and running vanguard would preclude me from commiting much if any time to such an ambitious project. That being said anything I can help with I will even if it's just feedback on what your doing.

Wish you luck with this and look forward to updates cheers.

We could really do with a dedicated forum or something for E40k elsewhere this section has a lot of great ideas but it's spread all over the place I tried to gather resources and links together as a sticky at the top of this page but it's still a bit of a jumble everything needs gathering together and re-organising.

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 Post subject: Re: Making Chaos more Chaos-ey (experimental optional rules)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 4:52 am 
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KevinW wrote:
I'd love to read your thoughts on it! I was thinking along the same lines except I feel that Chaos Space Marines should be available as support, much like with IG. The thinking is that they would act as "advisers" to stiffen the ranks.

I am also putting forth that this forum offshoot should put together a compendium of optional rules. I have a couple more I want to post in the coming weeks that I don't feel are game breaking or going against the spirit of simplicity that makes the game so great. There's no reason why Epic 40k should be a dead rule set.


Absolutely, E40k was endlessly tweaked right from day 1, with terrific fan websites (Dropship e-zine, Laitus Prime, Liber Imperialis... Post if you remember these sites!), the legendary Space Marine email list, the Fanatic Press publications (Firepower and Epic 40,000 Magazine) and much more. While I think it is a gorgeous game as written, it lends itself to fun house rules admirably well.

Re: New Chaos Detachments, I think there are millions of directions you could take it and no true "one way." My initial thoughts for one option would be:

HQ
Chaos Space Marine Lord
Tzeentch Sorcerer
Greater Daemon (with options for different types)

Main Force
Chaos Space Marine Terminators (Land Raiders)
Chaos Space Marines (Rhinos, Veterans*, Khorne Berzerkers*, Noise Marines*)
Chaos Space Marine Bikers
Cultists (up to one Demagogue Psyker)

Support Force
Daemons (Rampage*, Cavalry*, Jump Packs*, Psykers*)
Dreadnought
Predator
Land Raider
Daemon Engine

*Choose one

Chaos Lord > Greater Daemon > Sorcerer > Chaos Space Marine Unit > Demagogue > Other Unit

This detachment could either be mobile (using only Chaos Space Marines in the main force, because they have transport options) or be horde-like, with Chaos Marines on foot, cultists, daemons, dreadnoughts and the slower daemon engines. You might notice that I dropped the Thousand Sons options. The reason is that Stubborn really only works if you only pick Thousand Sons stands, which is really boring and plus, they never came out with an updated model for that. I feel that each Chaos power should be represented by a single unit choice... Tzeentch already has the Chaos Sorcerer unit, Khorne has the Berzerkers and Slaanesh has the Noise Marines (essentially, the Devastator heavy weapon unit of the Chaos Space Marines). Nurgle doesn't really have anything in the Epic 40k scale, which is a shame, but I'm not sure what to do about that short of creating an entirely new unit for them.

I would also have a pure Cultist detachment that represented corrupt Imperial Guardsmen and had access to Chimeras, Leman Russ tanks and so on, but also had lesser daemons as a support option.


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