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Orders Militant Adepta Sororitas V1.0

 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant Adepta Sororitas V1.0
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 4:57 am 
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If a 600 point war engine is going to be useful as a platform for *one* TK weapon, that seems like a poor economy even if it can be used as a blitzguard unless the cannon is putting out a D6 or equivalent and likely hitting on a 2+. Compare it to the value of a whole company of Shadowswords or three batteries of deathstrikes.

I see these engines, even if built around one weapon (a "Light of the Emperor" or "Macromelta" or "Inferno beamer" or such) as being festooned with flamer ports. Sisters do love their burnination, after all. If it needs a pronounced weakness, why could it not have a 6+ CC and 4+ FF as many people have argued for cheaper engines, or an FF EA 1/2/3 flamer battery weapon on a 5+?


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 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant Adepta Sororitas V1.0
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 8:05 pm 
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Yeah I know what you mean (my suggestion was a starting point). The cathedral has allot going for it atm, I like those names though. Compared to a company of SS it lacks the firepower of the volcano cannon but is better in all other aspects, I don't think giving it more FF attacks is the solution. I reckon giving it a better gun is for the best.

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 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant Adepta Sororitas V1.0
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 5:39 am 
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A better gun and range could go alright.

At the moment I am really struggling to come up with a decent list that could do alright against multiple opponents.

Currently the main strengths I see of this army is FF (CC is terrible without a good delivery system when facing a savvy opponent), but we aren't strong enough to weather the storm of crossing the board against all the IG artillery and ranged TK, Eldar and Tau skimmer pop up attacks and move shoot move shenanigans. We can't out horde them either as our formations are too expensive for that tactic, nor do we have access to RA.

Let alone dealing with a decent Ork list, or a RA Orkanorous build, Emps children etc

A pure Titan list we could actually do alright against.

Personally I think we're worse than ground pound marines at this point in time.


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 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant Adepta Sororitas V1.0
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:43 am 
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Wild concept without any basis n thought - Gorgons.

What about making a smaller war engine that behave similarly to Gorgons? Current stuff can still be the inspiring mobile fortress Leviathan/Capitol Imperialis style rallying point, bristling with guns for either brutal up-close/FF smashing or a longer range blitz-battery engine, but opening up a transport with infiltrate, barging and some close-up fire and a lot of protective power for delivery? A "Battle Chapel" perhaps? Maybe even give it inspiring to promote it's morale boosting ability among it's passengers?

It's not as though the Imperium is short on engines we could leverage into the list to provide transport. Failing that, what else can provide mobility for sisters short of outright thunderhawking them all? I'm personally uncomfortable with just giving everything flyers, it doesn't feel so true to the theme in my head, but mobility seems necessary for a relatively expensive, short-on-numbers force like this.


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 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant Adepta Sororitas V1.0
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 2:59 pm 
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Doomkitten wrote:
Wild concept without any basis n thought - Gorgons.

What about making a smaller war engine that behave similarly to Gorgons? Current stuff can still be the inspiring mobile fortress Leviathan/Capitol Imperialis style rallying point, bristling with guns for either brutal up-close/FF smashing or a longer range blitz-battery engine, but opening up a transport with infiltrate, barging and some close-up fire and a lot of protective power for delivery? A "Battle Chapel" perhaps? Maybe even give it inspiring to promote it's morale boosting ability among it's passengers?

It's not as though the Imperium is short on engines we could leverage into the list to provide transport. Failing that, what else can provide mobility for sisters short of outright thunderhawking them all? I'm personally uncomfortable with just giving everything flyers, it doesn't feel so true to the theme in my head, but mobility seems necessary for a relatively expensive, short-on-numbers force like this.


The chapels are now pretty similar to gorgons just up gunned with less carrying capacity.

Could we try dropping the chapel formation and only allowing them as a transport upgrade at 100pts each?

That way no spamming cheap wareengine pairs, instead they make a formation cost 475 fully mounted for 8 sisters and 2 chapels? Give some resistance to picking away transports?


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 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant Adepta Sororitas V1.0
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:11 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant Adepta Sororitas V1.0
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:02 pm 
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I'd be tempted to bring back some kind of air assault craft for hitting the back line. Something similar to the gun cutter or such.
As well as the upgunned chapel to do TK shooting from the back line


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 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant Adepta Sororitas V1.0
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:03 pm 
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Why? Should the list have no weak spots?

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 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant Adepta Sororitas V1.0
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:00 pm 
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mordoten wrote:
Why? Should the list have no weak spots?


Agree here, not a fan of air assaults for the sisters. Maaaaaybe space craft planetfall (crusading angels falling from the heavens) but even then that feels a bit of a stretch (and the justification for teleport on the seraphim already). I mean, Guard don't have air assaults or orbital drops and do alright.

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Currently the main strengths I see of this army is FF (CC is terrible without a good delivery system when facing a savvy opponent), but we aren't strong enough to weather the storm of crossing the board against all the IG artillery and ranged TK, Eldar and Tau skimmer pop up attacks and move shoot move shenanigans. We can't out horde them either as our formations are too expensive for that tactic, nor do we have access to RA.

Let alone dealing with a decent Ork list, or a RA Orkanorous build, Emps children etc


With the old heavy flamer equipped Retributors I didn't really have much issue with big Ork mobs or Speed Freak mobs trying to swarm. You drive the Rets into position 15cm away (likely doubling), then drop 12 5+ (because -1 double) AP shots killing and blast markering, average 4 hits, 5+ saves so about 3 kills. Then Engage with a mission on a retain, get the 6x3+ support fire shots, BMs in favour and 8 4+FF and frequently win that. I don't think this is possible with the new heavy bolter ones...I really dislike the heavy bolter change actually.

Exorcists too, on overwatch especially, brutalise Eldar. Taking that formation to 8 strong (250 base for 5, +2 exorcists for 100, +1 hunter for 50 = 400) is expensive but puts out the firepower. Smaller 5+hunter for 300 is also really good with 11 AT4+. Doubling is still AT5+, averaging 3-4 hits, strips shields like a boss.

Lightnings synergise well with Exorcists+Hunters for the big air cover screen, one ofthe two strips shields, th eother formations put out the AT shots.

RA is tough, but Dominions as engagement support adds meaningful MW, but not faced a lot of RA so can't really speak from experience if it's enough. Otherwise it's weight of fire/engagement again. Otherwise throw Penitents at it! Or the new Purgeance for 6 MW 4+ at 15cm.

Just theorycrafting I'd run something like
Mission+Sup Com+Imm 400
Mission 275
Mission 275
Rets 250
Rets 250
6 Penitents 245
Doms 200
Doms 200
Ex+Hnt 300
Ex+Hnt 300
Light 150
Light 150

12 activations, a lot of armoured bodies, rhino rush early, lots of doubles to get to half way, get into support fire positions to make engaging it risky, you can accept losing the rhinos from this point as being half way up and going at walking pace still puts you as threatening their half of the board for turns 2 and 3.

Maybe, drop a mission, add 4 penitents for 175 (swap a penitent from the 6 to have 2 5s?), drop the sup comm and get a third dominion for 13 activations but you lose the core bulk to instead have potentially 5 garrisoned formations (2 penitents, 3 doms) and quite a few macro attacks.

Try using the Cathedral
Mission 275
Mission 275
Purgeance+hnt 300
Dom 200
Dom 200
Ret 250
Ex+hnt 300
Ex+hnt 300
Light 150
Light 150
Cath 600

Or drop the purgeance and hunter, add a mission and an immolator somewhere.

Slightly different, works better if the Inquisitor regains Sup Comm.
Inq+8 imm 400
Mission 275
Mission 275
Dom 200
Dom 200
Ret 250
Ser 250
Purge 250
Ex+hnt 300
Ex+hnt 300
Light 150
Light 150

Perhaps swap the Seraphim for Dominions and spend the saved 50pts adding some Doms to the missions to spread the macro love?

Alternatively, when in doubt, more missions, 13 activations
Mission 275
Mission 275
Mission 275
Mission 275
Dom 200
Dom 200
Dom 200
Dom 200
Dom 200
Ex+hnt+Ex 350
Ex 250
Light 150
Light 150

Or tons of rets
Ret+Sup Com 350
Ret 250
Ret 250
Ret 250
Ret 250
Ret 250
Ret 250
Ret 250
Dom 200
Dom 200
Ex+hnt 300
Light 150
Light 150


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 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant Adepta Sororitas V1.0
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:23 pm 
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Scutarii wrote:
mordoten wrote:
Why? Should the list have no weak spots?


Agree here, not a fan of air assaults for the sisters. Maaaaaybe space craft planetfall (crusading angels falling from the heavens) but even then that feels a bit of a stretch (and the justification for teleport on the seraphim already). I mean, Guard don't have air assaults or orbital drops and do alright.


I'm not advocating that the list has no weakness, just we have too much weakness currently


True Imperial gaurd do not have access to air assaults, but they do have plenty of access to fearless fast moving warhounds, fearless D3 TK 90cm SS, titans and plenty of options for artillery to hit the back line.

Our best gun is 45cm - not indirect.

I agree the landing party is a stretch. But all I am looking for is a way to not be decimated by a savvy opponent while I try and cross the board. Even hugging terrain I'm going to be in a lot of trouble aBy the time i get in position and close enough for some nice engage actions.

We'll see how it all goes in playtesting though I guess


Last edited by Mard on Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant Adepta Sororitas V1.0
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:25 pm 
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Hmmm, if we had Chapels as Gorgon alikes (suggested for 100pts transport upgrades, perhaps downgrade the BP on the main gun to 2BP?)

Mission+2xChapel 475
Mission+2xChapel 475
Mission 275
Ret 250
Ret 250
Ex+hnt 300
Ex+hnt 300
Light 150
Light 150
Pen 175
Pen 175

Lack of something akin to guard sentinels makes them a bit awkward but that's list building for you.


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 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant Adepta Sororitas V1.0
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:52 pm 
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Yeah, I'm not sure changing the chapel into Gorgons is the answer yet.

Personally I was seeing the Chapels as similar to the IG Stormsword formation. Great for digging out entrenched units. And if the unit could be 3 strong it would be great for moving up and claimming objectives. Especially if we could get the Cathedral to have a decent long range TK option for dealing with larger threats.

This still means we have to ground pound across the board, but we have a couple of hard formations. We would still have to sink the points into those two units if we wanted to field them, and Most of our range (Besides the 0-1 option Cathedral) would be limited to the 45cm range.

We'll still be hit hard by pop up Tau attacks, artillery/DS, Eldar barrage etc but we could have a chance


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 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant Adepta Sororitas V1.0
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 10:08 am 
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There are the Seraphim for disrupting artillery and getting across the board faster with their teleport. Might be enough to get you across the board in slightly healthier state.


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 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant Adepta Sororitas V1.0
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 10:22 am 
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Yeah i was looking at the seraphim, but with TP them in without support - as well as the chance of takin a BM on the way in is a bit too much of a risk without the option of giving them inspiring. So they don't feature in my list unfortunately at the moment


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 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant Adepta Sororitas V1.0
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 10:43 am 
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They can be made fearless and invulnerable however so could hang around fairly well.

What's in the armoury for the Inquisitorial forces? Right now it's arcos, penitents, redemptionists and the warband. Anything else in the setting that fits to give alternate ways of either covering ground or reaching out to attack earlier? Spaceship for bombardment? Different aircraft to attack with? Artillery or militia/pdf forces?


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