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Orders Militant Adepta Sororitas V1.0

 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant Adepta Sororitas V1.0
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 11:14 am 
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Mard wrote:
Yeah, I'm not sure changing the chapel into Gorgons is the answer yet.

Personally I was seeing the Chapels as similar to the IG Stormsword formation.


I was envisioning three stages of transport. A super long-range type, a close-assault, melta-flamer-FF-heavy sort and a gorgon-like without too much weaponry or support, but with other abilities to buff the sisters themselves, hence inspiring, plus lots of reinforced and very good saves. Three choices, but all working to compete for the same WE allocation. I have in my head a thought that at 3000 points you'd be torn between only having room for two of the three options to maintain a little balance and avoid situations where WEs cover everything.

It's not a secret that I'd prefer to balance the Sisters themselves without relying on the Inquisitorial options to cover glaring weaknesses within the title theme of the list.


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 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant Adepta Sororitas V1.0
PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 4:35 pm 
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Quote:
I was envisioning three stages of transport. A super long-range type, a close-assault, melta-flamer-FF-heavy sort and a gorgon-like without too much weaponry or support, but with other abilities to buff the sisters themselves, hence inspiring, plus lots of reinforced and very good saves. Three choices, but all working to compete for the same WE allocation. I have in my head a thought that at 3000 points you'd be torn between only having room for two of the three options to maintain a little balance and avoid situations where WEs cover everything.

I don't wont the list to get bloated with array of different WE types that was one of the reasons for removing the titans. As for added the long range TK type I don't think it should be that long range, 60cm maybe 75cm at a push. The current type in v1.5 is close assault and melta flamer with its current weapon system representing its FF, the gorgon like WE is not rely an option it would turn the list into WE assault list and make the other WE options redundant.

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 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant Adepta Sororitas V1.0
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 6:32 pm 
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The cathedral upgunned, I have renamed the big gun and increased it's range/hit but reduced the speed of the warengine for the alternative cathedral.
Cathedral of Immorlation
15cm 4+/5+/5+
Damage Capacity 6, 2 Void Shields, Reinforced Armour, Fearless,
Inspiring, Walker, Crit-Immobilized further crit 1DC
Macro-Melta 75cm MW2+ TK D3+1, Fixed forward Arc
Excommunicator 30cm 3xAP6+/AT4+/AA5+
Heavy Bolter 30cm AP5+, Fixed forward Arc
Twin Lascannon 45cm AT4+ L Arc
Twin Lascannon 45cm AT4+ R Arc

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 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant Adepta Sororitas V1.0
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 6:52 pm 
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Now that I want to give a try. Will need to wait for my regular opponent to be back in action to do it properly but might be able to sneak in a game with someone else...


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 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant Adepta Sororitas V1.0
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 8:59 pm 
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Had a game a while ago using the purgeance in a 3k game against steel legion.
My list,
Mission+Sup Com+Rhino 375
Mission+Priest+Rhino 325
Rets+Priest+Rhino 300
Doms+Repressors 250
Doms+Repressors 250
Ex+Hnt 300
Ex+Hnt 300
Purg/Imm 250
Purg/Imm 250
Purg/Imm 250
Light 150
E&C's Steel Legion,
Mec Infantry com+Hydra 450
Infantry com 250
Infantry com 250
Riders 150
hydra com 150
Basilisk 250
Basilisk 250
Storm+Valk 350
Sentinel 100
Reaver 650
Thunderbolt 150
Setup, I garrisoned my dominion and E&C garrisoned both inf com, sentinel, riders and stormtroopers.
The first turn there was a bit off shooting and some engaging due to E&C's forces being deployed half way up the table, I was to aggressive with the immorlators and two formations got broken with one or two remaining in each formation. However I held back the steel legion setting up for turn 2 this is were it when't wrong I lost the initiative and my two big assualts lost, I clawed it back a bit but made some mistakes and then lost roll off turn 3 aswell. Steel legion won two nil.

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 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant Adepta Sororitas V1.0
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:58 pm 
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How did you find them? They seemed mor elike a core part of your assault here with 3 of them, would you maybe swap one for a second set of Retributors for a slightly tougher core to an engagement and leave the Purgeance as support fire types instead?

Do you prefer the heavy bolters on the Rets?

I played two games with my sisters but didn't post them up because I was introducing a new player to Epic so wasn't playing 'properly' and they were learning so didn't feel they were particularly useful.


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 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant Adepta Sororitas V1.0
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 6:33 pm 
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Quote:
How did you find them? They seemed mor elike a core part of your assault here with 3 of them, would you maybe swap one for a second set of Retributors for a slightly tougher core to an engagement and leave the Purgeance as support fire types instead?


I like them as a formation, I was too aggressive with them as they work better as a support formation and your right I could of done with more solid front line, which I suffered from in that game as one of my mission formation failed its activation and left a gaping whole in my push forward.

Quote:
Do you prefer the heavy bolters on the Rets?


Yeah works allot better, more range but less devastating fire.

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 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant Adepta Sororitas V1.0
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:50 pm 
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Honestly I dislike the switch for HBs on the rets. Their main use case IMO is as firefight support, they double to get within 15cm, shoot to place BMs then support an engagement. With HBs they get 12 AP7+ shots (5+ normal, -1 double, -1 for inevitable cover), so mostly just place a BM. The HFlamers were way better at this and standing off to fire with HBs is not a particularly good use of them in an engage heavy army.

Anyway. Had a game last night, EpicUK, 3k vs. an Executioner based Dark Eldar army piloted by Matt Arnold. The list plays very diferently to most Epic lists, having almost the entire army mounted inside the Executioner, it doubles to move, disembark, mass firepower, remount, retreat, annihilating formations per activation then relying on the crazy concentration of good firefight and CC units and shields to make it really tough to engage. Then a few formations in the webway to create breathing space for it and contest objectives.

Dark Eldar
Archon+Incubi+Portable Webway
Webway Gate
Warrior Kabal
Warrior Kabal
Mandrakes
Vessel of Pain
Vessel of Pain
Executioner
Spaceship
Scourges
Hellions

I am still trying to make the cathedral actually work.

Mission+SupCommander
Mission
Rets
Rets
Doms
Doms
6 Penitents
Exorcists+Hunter
Lightning
Lightning
Cathedral

Deployment: I place my blitz in a corner, one objective close to his blitz and closer to the opposite corner of the board to force thigs to play wide (as his army is mostly concentrated). The rest of the objectives sit near my blitz in a clump on the half way point. Webway Gate about 20cm into his half, same side as my blitz. I deploy mosty wide across my deployment zone, knowing that a bombardment is on the way. No DE start on the table. Garrissoned the Dominions and the Penitents (Overwatch).

Turn 1: Dark Eldar win init and their spaceship flies over, bombardment hits both Rets, killing a rhino and 2 sisters from one and two sister from another, neither break but both close to it. Pinpoints strip the shields form the Cathedral and take 1DC. The Executioner then lands and DE retain to double, dismount, fire everything at the Cathedral, remount and withdraw to hover in front of one mission about 25cm from my blitz. The shots at the Cathedral (several TK) destroys it giving DE BTS, the barrage places BMs on a mission and the exorcists. At this point the DE can, at most, one activation left if they bring warriors on through the portal. I move the Penitents from their garrison position to surround the portal so if anything comes out it has to engage them in H2H. DE pass, not risking their warriors in a meat grinder with penitents. I have free run of the table and the Exorcists move to fire at the Executioner, stripping all 4 Shadowfields. Both Lightnings swoop in to put on 1DC of damage (and give the Executioner a total of 4BMs). The Dominions move back to firefight range surrounding the Executioner, mission moves up, Rets move toward Executioner but are miles away. Second Rets try to marshal move but fail and break so move double up the opposite flank and toward the objective and DE blitz (these sisters will win the game, scoring 2 objectives by themselves). As my final move I take the opportunity gifted for a fairly high risk engagement with a BM'd Mission who go fearless/invuln and take on the executioner, crowding in as best they can to leave as little room as possible for the mounted troops to dismount. This is a bloody meatgrinder but the Incubi and Hellions and Scourges are crippled, the Executioner reduced to 1DC and broken and my Mission down to 3 stands of broken sisters. This was a huge success and basically sets up the rest of the game. Everything on the table rallies for both sides.

Turn 2: Mandrakes teleport down. Sisters win strategy and have to decide wether to pressure the Executioner or try and tidy up otherwise. If the sisters destroy the 1DC 5+ reinforced armour, unshielded warengine then all the formations carried inside it will get to activate separately, however if they leave it alone then it can only activate once giving free rein of the table again. Sisters opt to smash up the teleporting mandrakes. Rets move up and shoot them for BMs and I think one kill. Dominions retain to engage the Mandrakes and, with FF support from rets, win and wipe them. Executioner activates, moves and dismounts everyone, shoots to cripple and break the Exorcists. They place the mobile webway, retain and warriors come out to engage the Rets who just helped wipe the Mandrakes, with FF support from vessels of pain and the executioner this wipes out the Rets. They retreat to some ruins. The DE decide not to pbring on their last warrior formation (which would entail H2H with the Penitentd sitting on the webway gate). Table is now the sisters with about 7 activations. Penitents go on overwatch (which basically renders that final warrior formation useless as entering the table would cripple them and make their activation a forced engage in a place of my choosing against a formation of my choosing with overwatch fire waiting for them). Lightnings swoop in and destroy the Executioner, giving BTS to the sisters. Lightnings hit the warriors who entered the table, removing their transports. Formations shuffle around a bit, shooting wipes out the few remaining Scourges. Rets on the far opposite side of th eboard move up to contest an objective and will be in reach of the blitz next turn.

Turn 3: DE win strategy, go for one last ditch effort with a vessel of pain moving to take an objective and shoot at the Penitents, killing enough to make a hole in the ring meaning the warriors could enter the table. The warriors already on the table engage some dominions with FF support from the vessel of pain and beat them, leaving the one final sister fleeing...right back onto the webway gate, plugging the gap just made and forcing the H2H engagement again! Mission engages the last unactivated vessel of pain and pulls in the single Incubi+Archon stand into firefight, Mission wins, destroys the VoP, BMs break the unactivated Incubi and DE have only got their warriors in the webway left. They duly come on, surprise win the engagement with the Penitents but are crippled and broken by the BMs they took from overwatch and casualties in the combat. Table is now free for the sisters but basically it's the Rets sneaking up the far side of the table again, advancing to control the blitz and a second objective.

Sisters win T3, 3-1 (blitz, 2 objectives in enemy half, BTS vs BTS).

Thoughts
1. Sisters remain fun to play and feel about right. Drowning your opponent in well armoured, aggressive firefighters.
2. Cathedral is not that tough, anything taken to fight titans will find it a fairly easy target and it's not great at being a threat on its own. Might try it with the Inq Retinue mounted up now that it's faster and take more direct routes through terrain. It's also not really any good at winning engagements.
3. Dominions are great, not really a scouting unit in the traditional sense, more of a 'bring the pain' support unit.
4. The penitent engines are very good too, arguably spammable garrisoned forward sets of 6 for 245pts can carve a bloody, fearless path through a lot of stuff. Will need to try bringing a few of them in that role.
5. Many of the more exotic units (penitents the exception) are not competing for space in my lists. Missions, Retributors, Dominions, Exorcists, Hunters, Penitents, Lightnings is pretty much the only stuff I feel is good to take, those make a strong, consistent army with a playstyle that fits into the way Epic is 'meant' to be played. Some of the upgrades are interesting and worth using too (Immolators). But I suspect in tournament play you'd find a lot of consistency between builds.
6. I'd probably use the Macro-Melta experimental Cathedral rather than the standard one if I used one again because it fills a role that the rest of the army can't fill themselves.
7. The change to Rets is making me consider just swapping them out for Missions instead, the missions now fill the role of firefight support better because of the Heavy Flamers, bigger formation size, etc. for only 25pts more.


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 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant Adepta Sororitas V1.0
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 8:30 pm 
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hi,

any planned Armyforge update (to 1.5)?


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 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant Adepta Sororitas V1.0
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:52 pm 
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Thanks for the report Scutarii, I have faced a similar DE army of matts at a tournament its a tough nut to crack. About your thoughts on the retri's I agree with you about the supporting and stuff but the 12 hflamer shots are a bit OTT, the hbolters have allot less firepower.

Quote:
any planned Armyforge update (to 1.5)?


I'll see what I can do pati, got a tournament with a armyforge admin fella in a couple of weeks.

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 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant Adepta Sororitas V1.0
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:28 am 
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Perhaps revive the older idea of 1xHB, 1xHF per stand?


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 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant Adepta Sororitas V1.0
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:06 pm 
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Scutarii wrote:
Perhaps revive the older idea of 1xHB, 1xHF per stand?


just don't overcomplicate the list again..


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 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant Adepta Sororitas V1.0
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 4:46 pm 
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I'm happy with how it is atm.

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 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant Adepta Sororitas V1.0
PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 9:25 pm 
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Had a game this weekend, 5k points vs Biel Tan Eldar. Fought to a draw, would have been calculated on points but we couldn't be bothered with that.

I took
Mission+Sup Comm+Immolator
Mission+2xCelestians
Mission+2xCelestians
Mission
Mission
Dominions
Dominions
Dominions
6 Pentient Engines
Lightnings
Lightnings
Exorcists+Hunter
Exorcists+Hunter
Exorcists+Hunter
Inquisitorial Retinue+Valkyries
Cathedral (Macro-Melta version)
Chapels

Didn't see a lot of point in taking Retributors anymore.

Turn 1: Eldar interceptors fail to activate and Penitents engage+break the ranger screen. Scorpions pop forward and blow up two Penitents, retain and guardians in wave serpents engage penitents and kill all 4 remainig for the loss of two serpents, grounding the guardians. Mission advances on the right to some ruins, reinforcing some Dominions there. Void Spinners come forward, put some shots into the ruins to BM formations there. General advances across the board, jockeying for position and putting in some blast markers. Both sides set up for a big engagement in the ruins on the right, first Sisters engage but dice betray a fairly reliable win and chase away a mission and, Eldar take it with a Storm Serpent disgorging a big blob of guardians+wraithlords again, casualties are high on both sides but the Eldar win it again but are broken in the process. Sisters Lightnings have a hard time with all the surrounding AA cover but manage to destroy one Scorpion, taking a BM on the disengage. Eldar titan misses the Cathedral and cathedral misses the titan.

Turn 2: Trying to lock down the Lightnings Eldar interceptors go on CAP. Missions+Dominions surge forward to the ruins on the right, breaking remaining Eldar and securing it, sitting in support fire range of another set of Scorpions and the Storm Serpent. Eldar are in a bit of trouble but hold the center with a webway gate, falcons, guardians, spinners and dire avengers. The titan rolls up to the left side contesting an objective and in position for supporting engagements on two missions and some dominions. Scorpions put in shots on the Dominions, breaking them and accidentally allowing them to withdraw to block the planned engagement on the missions by the guys in the center of the table. Sisters prep and engage the Titan, going fearless and looking pretty solid to win as it gets 9 attack on 3s vs 16 attacks on 4+8 rhinos plus inspiring plus likely outnumber+ blast marjers in favour for 2 more in the resolution. No damage dealt to either side amazingly but snake eyes on the sisters for the resolution has them lose. More shuffling around the table, Sisters in strong positions, lots of sturdy formations remain active to the largely spent scattered remains of Eldar.

Turn 3: Sisters again set up the engagement on the titan, moving in a third formation, replacing the BM on it and retaining to engage it with 2xMission+Inquisitors retinue. Fail to engage, reroll with sup comm and fail to engage (snake eyes again). Titan escapes the circle o'doom and sits on the blitz, putting shots at stuff on the way but missing with the big guns and saves blocking the other hits. Exorcists move to recontest my blitz and leaving that mostly safe as nothing else Eldar looks to be able to reach it. More trading but Eldar mostly hiding in the deployment zone with lots of small shattered formations left but still plenty of mobility.

Turn 4: Cathedral kills last Scorpion, clearing Eldar blitz, lots of moving and failed activations but enough Eldar remain mobile enough to put someone on to contest each objective, preventing a win for the sisters but not able to take anything from them either. Time ran out so we called it a draw (points would have favoured the Sisters, probably by quite a bit).

Overall this Cathedral (with the TK) is much more useful for the list. I missed the big flame template from it a few times but the 75cm range is much more useful as it provides a tool the army otherwise lacks. Still feel it needs to have a much better firefight or something, same wth the Chapels. Chapels are alright, 350pts rather than 400pts would 'feel' better to me but their big template is helpful and they remain useful even when one is blown up as they have 3BP. Exorcists+Hunter are great and everyone punishes them whenever they stick their nose out, 300pts of pain.

Didn't miss the retributors, their HBs would have been useless, especially in the movement heavy game played here, doubling+cover kills them. The heavy flamers from the missions were useful and the flame+support style is very satisfying to use and effective overall. Penitent Engines are both great and very tempting to throw away in suicidal death charges (which is eminently fitting).

The purgeance and seraphim remain interesting for the list, just didn't fit them in. Chapels+Cathedral is not something I'd do that often, only at these high points, pick one of them to use at most and would probably be alright without either. Other units in the list don't appeal, don't see them adding much. Still need to get the models for them to complete the collection but probably wouldn't use them.


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 Post subject: Re: Orders Militant Adepta Sororitas V1.0
PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 10:28 pm 
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Thanks for your report and comments.

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