Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 84 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghold v1.51

 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghold v1.51
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:34 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:01 pm
Posts: 1324
Challenge accepted Tim - here's 7 battle reports I've had for this list

3k proper report - vs Biel Tann http://taccmd.tacticalwargames.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=29398

and 6 shorter reports (3 @ 3k, 3 @ 2k) http://taccmd.tacticalwargames.net/viewtopic.php?f=134&t=29645

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghold v1.51
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:40 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:17 pm
Posts: 119
Location: Toronto, Canada
Mard wrote:
I'll nudge him guys, give me a sec

Mard or Tiny-Tim, did either of you guys manage to get hold of Elsaurio?

thanks!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghold v1.51
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:48 pm 
Hybrid
Hybrid

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:32 pm
Posts: 4638
Location: North Yorkshire
My message has been picked up, but no reply as yet. I am monitoring the situation.

_________________
_________________
www.epic-uk.co.uk - home of the UK Epic tournament scene
NetEA NetERC Xenos Lists Chair
NetEA Ork + Feral Ork + Speed Freak Champion


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghold v1.51
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 4:51 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 2:21 am
Posts: 569
Location: Australia
I messaged him again. We'll see how he responds


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghold v1.51
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 8:45 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:17 pm
Posts: 119
Location: Toronto, Canada
Not sure this is the right thread, but I took my Squats for their first run this week and while i didnt record a full batrep, thought i would share some impressions my opponent and I had from the list.
I used the E-UK list, since it is an approved list.
My list was:
Warriors +Warlord +Grand Warlord +rhinos
Bezerkers +rhinos
Bezerkers +rhinos
thunderfires
thunderfires
mole mortars
bikes +3 trikes
overlord
overlord
Cyclops
Colossus +Living Ancestor

My opponent fielded the following AMTL list
Reaver
Reaver
Reaver
Warhound
Warhound
Skitarii in a Corvus Assault Pod
Tbolt
Tbolt

So first up, this is not a matchup that is going to go well for AMTL (and it didnt), due to activation count, the number of battlecannons in the Squat list to strip void shields (23 if you include the 60cm thunderfires), oh - and the Cyclops.
Here are some impressions from the game:
The overlords were a pita. Not so much from the battlecannons (they stripped some void shields but didnt really do any damage) but they were pretty hard to kill, since I kept them away from his Reavers and out of assault reach of his warhounds. I can see they would die easily in an assault, but if you cant reach them, the 4+RA makes them pretty survivable.
Giving the thunderfires a transport capability made them very good. His Tbolts were almost neutralized the entire game because of certain death waiting for them across most of the table. I think 30cm move with the rhinos is excessive - rhinos should either be slower when towing thunderfires or use a dedicated gun-tractor to pull them with maybe 20cm move.
I took Mole mortars, because there has been some discussion in this forum about them and they were amaze-balls. They garrisoned in the middle of a city, so couldnt be targeted easily and had a 4+ save when his Warhound did get into the city to shoot them. They did more damage for the points than any other formation (apart from the Skitarii which took out the Warriors, bikes and one of the bezerkers before the mole mortars broke them). The combination of 6BP and disrupt and indirect and garrison and INF so they can get cover saves is really good.
Overall, the Squats have lots of really solid formations at 200-250 points. That let me take 11 activations and still bring two WEs, both of which have great stats/points value at 3K.
This was just one game and it was against probably the perfect army for the Squats to face, so I'll have to see how they do against other races. However, I think most of our observations would hold true.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghold v1.51
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 1:57 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:01 pm
Posts: 1324
Interesting game that. I've faced AMTL with a similar Squat list and got similar results. I'd say that's mainly about the Cyclops, it just restricts the titans' movement so much.

Mark W and I played with mole mortars the other week. Likewise he garrisoned up board to get range but I basically avoided them. They did a little bit of damage but one unit got butchered by an air assault and while the other proved a useful objective holder but didn't do much else.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghold v1.51
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 4:20 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2014 2:54 pm
Posts: 306
taiaha wrote:
Mard wrote:
I'll nudge him guys, give me a sec

Mard or Tiny-Tim, did either of you guys manage to get hold of Elsaurio?

thanks!


I'm still here and actively working on the Squats - see the Sqautmageddon thread for where we are up to.

I need to remember not to neglect taccoms over the other epic fourms!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghold v1.51
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 4:24 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2014 2:54 pm
Posts: 306
taiaha wrote:
Not sure this is the right thread, but I took my Squats for their first run this week and while i didnt record a full batrep, thought i would share some impressions my opponent and I had from the list.
I used the E-UK list, since it is an approved list.
My list was:
Warriors +Warlord +Grand Warlord +rhinos
Bezerkers +rhinos
Bezerkers +rhinos
thunderfires
thunderfires
mole mortars
bikes +3 trikes
overlord
overlord
Cyclops
Colossus +Living Ancestor

My opponent fielded the following AMTL list
Reaver
Reaver
Reaver
Warhound
Warhound
Skitarii in a Corvus Assault Pod
Tbolt
Tbolt

So first up, this is not a matchup that is going to go well for AMTL (and it didnt), due to activation count, the number of battlecannons in the Squat list to strip void shields (23 if you include the 60cm thunderfires), oh - and the Cyclops.
Here are some impressions from the game:
The overlords were a pita. Not so much from the battlecannons (they stripped some void shields but didnt really do any damage) but they were pretty hard to kill, since I kept them away from his Reavers and out of assault reach of his warhounds. I can see they would die easily in an assault, but if you cant reach them, the 4+RA makes them pretty survivable.
Giving the thunderfires a transport capability made them very good. His Tbolts were almost neutralized the entire game because of certain death waiting for them across most of the table. I think 30cm move with the rhinos is excessive - rhinos should either be slower when towing thunderfires or use a dedicated gun-tractor to pull them with maybe 20cm move.
I took Mole mortars, because there has been some discussion in this forum about them and they were amaze-balls. They garrisoned in the middle of a city, so couldnt be targeted easily and had a 4+ save when his Warhound did get into the city to shoot them. They did more damage for the points than any other formation (apart from the Skitarii which took out the Warriors, bikes and one of the bezerkers before the mole mortars broke them). The combination of 6BP and disrupt and indirect and garrison and INF so they can get cover saves is really good.
Overall, the Squats have lots of really solid formations at 200-250 points. That let me take 11 activations and still bring two WEs, both of which have great stats/points value at 3K.
This was just one game and it was against probably the perfect army for the Squats to face, so I'll have to see how they do against other races. However, I think most of our observations would hold true.



Not surprized with your victory there, you have what we are considering as 'the' optimized squat list + a cyclops which is excellent against titans.

How effective was the Cyclops. I find that in most of my games the Cyclops very rarely gets to fire its main gun, but exerts a lot of battlefield control as all other War Engines backpedal to avoid it.

I agree on the Overlords being pita.

In the non uk list, mole mortars are half the BP they are in the UK one. I agree with a lot of changes the UK crew did, but am firmly convinced that mole mortars are great at 1/2 BP and overpowered at 1 BP.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghold v1.51
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 10:11 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:17 pm
Posts: 119
Location: Toronto, Canada
Elsaurio wrote:
Not surprized with your victory there, you have what we are considering as 'the' optimized squat list + a cyclops which is excellent against titans.

How effective was the Cyclops. I find that in most of my games the Cyclops very rarely gets to fire its main gun, but exerts a lot of battlefield control as all other War Engines backpedal to avoid it.

I agree on the Overlords being pita.

In the non uk list, mole mortars are half the BP they are in the UK one. I agree with a lot of changes the UK crew did, but am firmly convinced that mole mortars are great at 1/2 BP and overpowered at 1 BP.

Welcome back.. :)
The Cyclops got to fire the big gun every turn. Turn 1 it missed, turn 2 hit but rolled TK1+1 (knocked down 2 void shields). Turn 3 I one-shot killed a full strength Reaver, so guess it averaged out for the whole game.
I agree the mole mortars at 1/2 BP would be better - most of the damage they did was either because they could place extra BMs or extra templates, neither of those an issue at 3BP.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghold v1.51
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:44 am 
Hybrid
Hybrid

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:32 pm
Posts: 4638
Location: North Yorkshire
Ok, so we've had a year to digest and argue points over this list. Any chance of an update with the proposed changes?

_________________
_________________
www.epic-uk.co.uk - home of the UK Epic tournament scene
NetEA NetERC Xenos Lists Chair
NetEA Ork + Feral Ork + Speed Freak Champion


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghold v1.51
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:38 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:01 pm
Posts: 1324
Not to reopen a debate but if UK mole mortars are overpowered why are they pretty much the only unit no one has taken to a tournament this year? http://epic-uk.co.uk/ukepicachampionship/albyr.php

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghold v1.51
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:43 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:36 am
Posts: 90
Tiny-Tim wrote:
Ok, so we've had a year to digest and argue points over this list. Any chance of an update with the proposed changes?


I'd love to see an updated list to start playing with - my squats have been in stasis since Cancon!

- Kendall


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghold v1.51
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 11:03 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2016 2:30 am
Posts: 463
Location: (Sydney) NSW
I was thinking of an idea to make Squats balanced again after the unprecedented win they had at CanCon The winner had spammed Overlord airships, Thunderfire cannons and Beserker Brotherhoods, as well as having bikes and Iron Eagle formations.

My idea to make Bersrrkers not be spammed so much is to make the list minimum 1 x Warrior Brotherhood, and no more than 1 Berserker Brotherhood per Warrior Brotherhood.

To stop the Overlord Armoured Airships, move them and the Iron Eagles to a new category - similar to how some lists have allies, Squats can have Air support Formations. These can be Overlord Armoured Airships - 1 to 2 in a formation. No more than 1 formation per Warrior Brotherhood. The Iron Eagle Gyro Copters can be be no more than 1 per Berserker Brotherhood. With the formation having between 3 and 5 Gyro Copters.

As to the Thunderfire Cannon, they can remain as part of the Support formations 2 to 3 in a formation with no more than 1 formation per Warrior Brotherhood. The Guild Bikers/ Trikes should also stay as Support Formations, however only 1 per Berserker Brotherhood. Keep them as they are now with their options for Trikes, and upgrades.

With these changes, you force the Squat player to make their force diverse, with a good mix of Berserker and Warrior Brotherhoods. To get a lot of the relevant Air Support, or General Support formations such as Overlord Airships, and Thunderfire Cannons, you need to invest more points in each type of brotherhood. You will still have the 1/3 points in War Engines, so they will still be fairly common, yet still expensive.

_________________
6mm wargaming is just like 25mm wargaming with more units fitting on the same size table. Thus bigger games to get lost in and avoid the hassles of everyday living, and offerings for the dice gods.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghold v1.51
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 12:33 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:05 am
Posts: 891
Deb wrote:
My idea to make Bersrrkers not be spammed so much is to make the list minimum 1 x Warrior Brotherhood, and no more than 1 Berserker Brotherhood per Warrior Brotherhood.


I mentioned this particular "Per warrior formation" solution several times in the past, although with different details (units not being restricted per berzerker formation, for instance). It didn't seem to get much traction and even less discussion. I still maintain it would be a good way to do things, but it hasn't gathered popularity.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Squats: Thurgrimm Stronghold v1.51
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 1:08 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:01 pm
Posts: 1324
I think a warrior to bezerker ratio is not unreasonable. My concern is that it doesn't resolve the fact that warriors are overcosted by about 50 points per unit. I've put the maths on a couple of threads so won't bother to repost. If you brought down the cost of warriors then yeah, you could also put in a bezerker ratio (or move them to support).

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 84 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net