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Squats back from CanCon (The Overlord Rant)

 Post subject: Re: Squats back from CanCon (The Overlord Rant)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:23 am 
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Doomkitten wrote:
Frosthammer wrote:
question - if the spamming of the Overlord is such a concern, why not shift them into the War Engine section of the list?


Essentially, (I imagine) it's because there is already one of the largest selections of War Engines in what is already a relatively spartan squat list, combined with them being an army that traditionally has such large units like the Land Train, colossus and Overlords/gyrocopters as rather iconic components in it's force, alongside the stunty biker gangs.

If you make too many limits on their war machines they run into the danger of losing some of their flavour, so I assume it was the intent of making the War Machine section focus on the *BIG* war machines and the somewhat smaller/lighter stuff sneaking on by. Perhaps the overlord does need limiting, through a one-per-brotherhood "air wing" gyros and overlords section or some other way, but a choice that pigeon-holes squats into taking too many infantry and not enough war engine stuff is just as dangerous as over-permissive options (IMO, of course).


Overlord is to squats what shadowsword/bane blade is to gaurd so I agree it shouldn't be in the WE section.


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 Post subject: Re: Squats back from CanCon (The Overlord Rant)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 2:39 am 
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thanks for the responses - food for thought :)

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 Post subject: Re: Squats back from CanCon (The Overlord Rant)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 2:21 pm 
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Beefcake4000 wrote:

Overlord is to squats what shadowsword/bane blade is to gaurd so I agree it shouldn't be in the WE section.



I find an Overlord to be much closer in terms of firepower and flexibility to compare it to a Warhound.

Up until 1.5, overlords were stuffed in the War Engine section, which along with Goliaths made the whole thing quite crowded. Moving them to support was initially a good move, but has allowed them to be endlessly spammed. I don't see squats as 'All war balloons all the time' but instead having 1 or 2 to provide support.

I am juggling a few ways to curb the excess.


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 Post subject: Re: Squats back from CanCon (The Overlord Rant)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 2:26 pm 
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Frosthammer wrote:
disappointing to have to wade thru all the terrain waffle in a thread about Squats...could have been taken to a more appropriate part of the forum...



It certainly did get moved over to a different forum where the argument continued.

The argument was resolved when a few of the higher rules guys stepped in and cleared up that the Australian tournament was actually using the vanilla rules as per the book. The meta might be different but I think we can safely put aside the issue of 'different terrain rules' as the cause of the tournaments results.


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 Post subject: Re: Squats back from CanCon (The Overlord Rant)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 2:36 pm 
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Back to the topic on hand:

I was able to arrange a rematch against the Squat winner of Cancon, but this time we swapped lists.

I got to command the Bezerker/Thunderfire/Overlord list against my own 'a bit ordinary' Squat list.

I'll need to write up the report properly but the results.....were pretty much as expected.


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 Post subject: Squats back from CanCon (The Overlord Rant)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 10:52 am 
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Played 3 tournament games with this Epic UK list at the weekend (1 comfortable win, 1 winning draw, 1 narrow loss). If I hadn't been loaded with the cold on the back of a 60 hour working week in 3 countries I could probably have got that to 2 wins or 1 win 2 draws. Opponents were of a high standard (Rug, Richard L, and Orange).

WARRIOR BROTHERHOOD [425]
1 Hearthguard unit and 13 Warrior units, Rhinos, Grand Warlord

WARRIOR BROTHERHOOD [325]
1 Hearthguard unit and 13 Warrior units, Rhinos

BERZERKER BROTHERHOOD [200]
1 Hearthguard unit and 7 Berzerker units, Rhinos

THUNDERFIRE [175]
3 Thunderfire cannons plus transport

THUNDERFIRE [175]
3 Thunderfire cannons plus transport

BIKERS [225]
6 Bike, Guildmaster

IRON EAGLE [250]
4 Iron Eagles

COLOSSUS [475]
1 Colossus

CYCLOPS [500]
1 Cyclops, Living Ancestor

IRON EAGLE [250]
4 Iron Eagles

Basically the anti list talked about on this thread. I've gotta say, I like it far more (ie it's stronger) than the list I came 2nd in a tournament with earlier this year (which had 2 overlords and bezerker spam) and far, far more than the 5 overlord list I did the battle report for recently. It's both more mobile and has far more durability.

It also reinforced my view that removing spotter is basically the only nerf the overlords need. I was getting pretty much the same shooting output from 4 gyros (4 battle cannons and 8 auto canons but with much better movement to set up shooting & crossfire) and it wasn't overpowered. It's the synergy with the big war engines plus spotter that makes them powerful - ie being able to drop 11bp on something with indirect fire from the colossus or 4bp macro from the landtrain. This also usually means the units which would be in a position to assault your fragile overlords are ruined by barrage fire keeping the blimps safe.

Also, the epic UK move to remove the massive overcosting of warriors makes them a totally viable unit.

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Last edited by StevekCole on Mon Apr 25, 2016 9:28 pm, edited 8 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Squats back from CanCon (The Overlord Rant)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 12:16 pm 
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StevekCole wrote:
Basically the anti list talked about on this thread. I've gotta say, I like it far more than the list I came 2nd in a tournament with earlier this year (which had 2 overlords and bezerker spam). It's more mobile, but has far more durability.

It also reinforced my view that removing spotter is basically the only nerf the overlords need. It's the synergy with the big war engines that makes them powerful - ie being able to drop 11bp on something with indirect fire from the colossus or 4bp macro from the landtrain. Also, the epic UK move to remove the massive overcosting of warriors makes them a totally viable unit.


Agree wholeheartedly Steve, removing spotter from the Overlords would be a great start for testing.

- Kendall


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