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Let's Talk 7: Automatons

 Post subject: Let's Talk 7: Automatons
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 8:57 am 
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Let's talk: Robots!


Image

Analysis:

Not quite a tank, not quite heavy infantry, robots are none-the-less the only real ground unit that the Squat force that exists in that huuuuge gap in power between the normal infantry and the Super-Heavy War Machines.

The unit is infantry-slow, but 4+ armour gives it semi-decent protection. The special rule Automaton is a crucial bonus - think of it as half-way to Fearless and you can see how good it is. The firepower and CC is decent, but the unit doesn't bring anything to the table that the other Squat infantry choice have.


Space Marine Comparision:
The best cross-imperium comparison might be Terminators, although without Reinforced Armour. The lack of Teleport or Thunderhawks mean that the robots play a very different roll, maneuverability wise on the battle field.

Issues:
Taken in isolation, robots are a reasonable-enough all rounder unit. Why are they not taken so often in a Squat list? My personal guess is that they don't bring anything new to the table that the rest of the infantry doesn't already have. They have CC ability a bit better than Bezerkers, plus the Heavy Bolter/Missile Launcher shooting of Thunderers. Whenever I am putting together a Squat list I sometimes consider Robots, but find that I desperately need the points to be spent on something that compliments the infantry, not does the same job.


Likelyhood of any changes
I'm considering upgrading the bonus CC attack to include Macro Weapon, as per the UK list. This gives the unit a role even more like SM Terminators - attacking heavily armoured tanks and war machines.

Fun Fact
Although robots have always been a part of the Squat armylist and fluff, it seems that there was never any models or artwork made for them. If anyone has evidence otherwise, I'd love to see it!


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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk 7: Automatons
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 8:59 am 
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Let's talk: Tarantulas!

Image

Analysis:

Good ol' reliable Tarantulas. Found in Squat Armies, Imperial Fists and the awesome 90's game Space Crusade.

Slow and relatively short ranged, they are one of the few ways to add additional firepower when attached to an infantry unit.

Space Marine Comparision:

No need for a comparison - Tarantulas can be found in the Imperial Fists approved list, and we'll harmonize the rules here to match.

Issues:

I've never found the unit of 5 tarantulas worth taking - they are a bit too slow and fragile to do much of anything. Hopefull they will see more use as an upgrade to infantry units.

Likelyhood of any changes

I'd like to harmonize them with the tarantula rules in the existing lists - 2 x Lascannons 5+ becomes Twin Lascannons 4+, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk 7: Automatons
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 9:00 am 
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Let's talk: Rapiers!


Image

Analysis:

Like a Tarantula, except with 4 barrells not 2!


Space Marine Comparision:

Again, exists in the Imp. fist list

Issues:

Not sure why this unit exists when it is almost exactly the same unit as a tarantula. Sigh, I guess us squats are sticklers for tradition!

Likelyhood of any changes

Again harmonising the rules with the Imp. fists: 5+/ 6+/ 5+ with a 45cm AP6+/AT4+ shooting attack


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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk 7: Automatons
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 4:00 pm 
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Got a bunch in Epic scale. Both the old metal and plastic. They seemed to do out of favor with the Epic rules boys as time went on. SM1 had some nice Robot rules. But with in keeping the K.I.S.S concept and 'bots could use Dread rules ... Image

And then Tarantulas were crewed by humans not AI ... We have kept that concept.
Image
Image Image [I have since added foliage to some bases & more detail and even Decals to some of the older models ! ]


Photos 5 & 6 are Exodus Wars models ...


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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk 7: Automatons
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:48 pm 
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To add on to what L4 posted, here's a couple of shot of the plastic colossus and the metal crusader robots GW put out for epic.

Image

Image

We have these in the Admech lists, colossus in the Skitarii list and the Crusader in both AMTL and Skitarii. AdMech robots use an Automaton rule that gives them a kind of fearless-lite functionality.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk 7: Automatons
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 1:58 pm 
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Legion 4 wrote:
Got a bunch in Epic scale. Both the old metal and plastic. They seemed to do out of favor with the Epic rules boys as time went on. SM1 had some nice Robot rules. But with in keeping the K.I.S.S concept and 'bots could use Dread rules ...
Photos 5 & 6 are Exodus Wars models ...



Thanks man, they will help new players to sort out models.


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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk 7: Automatons
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 2:00 pm 
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Vaaish wrote:
To add on to what L4 posted, here's a couple of shot of the plastic colossus and the metal crusader robots GW put out for epic.


We have these in the Admech lists, colossus in the Skitarii list and the Crusader in both AMTL and Skitarii. AdMech robots use an Automaton rule that gives them a kind of fearless-lite functionality.


Thanks Vaaish. I'm currently been putting together a Skitarri army as my next project and have taken inspirations from some of your painting guides!


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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk 7: Automatons
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 2:45 pm 
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Great work "V" !!!!

Yes, I though I post all those to help ID all the models in discussion. In SM1, each Robot Type had it's own stats. And you have counters where you could "program" their orders ... Neat ... but like said, using them with dread stats works too. And based the old fluff, SMs, IG, Ad Mech CSMs/Cultist Traitor IG, and Squats could field robot, SMs could deploy whole Companies of them. I basically use the metal ones for SMs, Ad Mech, CSMs & IG, Cultist/Traitor and plastic for Squats ...


Here's one of my SM Bns using the old SM1 TO&E/charts/list with some 'bots ...


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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk 7: Automatons
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 11:50 pm 
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Echo pretty much everything you say Els. I'd be tempted to put the automata rule in the 'Squat special rules which could be reviewed/streamlined' box alongside stubborn and spotter. It is a little inelegant.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk 7: Automatons
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 1:45 am 
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StevekCole wrote:
Echo pretty much everything you say Els. I'd be tempted to put the automata rule in the 'Squat special rules which could be reviewed/streamlined' box alongside stubborn and spotter. It is a little inelegant.



I believe there are a number of armies that now use the Automata rule, Admech being the major one.

If the Squat automaton isn't word-for-word identical to the Admech one, then it damn well will be


There should be a master post somewhere that lists all the commonly used special rules that aren't in the main rule book but are identical across a few armies. Lance is another commonly used rule


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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk 7: Automatons
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 2:05 am 
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Elsaurio,

I believe the squat and Admech automaton rules are intentionally similar but not the same. This was due to the Squats having a greater emphasis on robots at the time and concerns that the version in the AdMech list might prove too strong for an army full of robots. It's been a while so my memory of the exact reasons might be a bit fuzzy though.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk 7: Automatons
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 3:20 am 
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From Admech

SPECIAL RULE : AUTOMATON Legio Cybernetica are mechanical constructs. As such, a unit noted as Automaton gains the following rule:
All formations composed entirely of automaton units will not collect blast markers for casualties to the formation or for cross re bonuses, but will collect blast markers for coming under re and disrupt attacks.
A formation composed entirely of automaton units will not automatically take damage in icted by blast markers when broken; a unit that is allocated a hit in this way may attempt to save it normally.


The current Squat Autonom
Formations will not collect blast markers on autonom unit casualties or for crossfire bonuses stemming from autonom units lost, but will collect blast markers for coming under fire and disrupt attacks. A broken autonom unit will not automatically be destroyed when shot at; an autonom unit that is allocated a hit in this way may attempt to make and armor save normally.

All non-air unit autonom are unable to march. All air unit autonoms are considered bombers for the purposes of maneuvering and do not receive bonuses for intercepting or combat-air-patrols.


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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk 7: Automatons
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 3:23 am 
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So the main differences are:

Admech does not allow you to mix Autonom and normal units together without losing the benefits of Autonom

Squat Autonoms can't march.

Is there any reason behind these difference? Vaaish?


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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk 7: Automatons
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 3:30 am 
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And then there is the imperial fists Automata!

pecial rule – Automata
• Formations composed entirely of units with the 'automata' rule may only use the following orders: Marshall, Overwatch, and Sustain Fire, they may not take a Hold action
• A formation composed entirely of units with automata may only contest objectives.
• A formation does not receive a Blast marker when a unit with automata is destroyed; this includes the extra Blast marker from the first casualty of a crossfire, and for units destroyed for being out of formation after a move. If one of these units is hit by a weapon with disrupt it does not inflict a Blast marker. Finally, don't count these units that are lost in an assault when working out who has won the combat.


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 Post subject: Re: Let's Talk 7: Automatons
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 3:44 am 
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For AdMech, we never have mixed units but the intent was so that we wouldn't run into complex rules scenarios if there were a mixed unit. it's just simpler if it's all or nothing. As for the not marching, I don't know why squats include that but there was no real reason to limit them for admech.

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