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Death Korps of Krieg

 Post subject: Re: Death Korps of Krieg
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:23 am 
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Under the current rules, there are no towed Heavy Artillery. At least, none that I can think of. The closest thing would be the Earthshaker Platform as used by the Planetary Defense Force list. Based on the time-scale of this game, I think that your proposed restrictions are a bit much. Assuming any Heavy Artillery are ever statted up that would require being towed, it would probably be simpler just to give them two Special Rules. The first would be to say that it can be Towed as per a Light Artillery. The second would be to give it the existing "Move or Fire" restriction.

Most of the models you listed are Light Artillery, except the Ork Traktor Kannon. That is listed as Heavy Artillery, and has it's own Move value. Thus yes, the "Heavy Mortar Bundle 01" as pictured, should be Light Artillery, as is the Thudd Gun. Note also that making the Thudd Gun Light Artillery was GW's idea, not mine, so don't blame me... ;)

The Frateris Militia do have the "Infantry Gun" which is basically what he is trying to do with his "artillery carriage" rules. It is classed as Light Artillery. See the "adeptusministorum.pdf" page 13 for the picture. Actually, that is a good point. Since that frame already exists in the current rules and acts as normal Light Artillery, the special rules for "artillery carriage" are not necessary.

On that note, there is already rules for the Centaur, even though it does not use that name. See the "Artillery Tractor" in the "adeptusmilitaris.pdf" page 15.

Thanks for the image of the Cyclops. That is a heck of a lot larger than "a briefcase with tracks" as was described earlier. There is no way that could be classified as Infantry under NetEpic Gold rules, as it is clearly larger than a Rapier or a Tarantula. It could perhaps have a Special Rule allowing it to fit inside a Chimera, but it would have to count as the entire capacity (IE, as two stands) to do so. In my opinion anyway. Thus it should probably be considered to be Walker for Pinning Class and Vehicle for Terrain Access.

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 Post subject: Re: Death Korps of Krieg
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:13 am 
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The trench rule has been affected by the fact that in my board game club we have always used the house rule that they only give a +1 save so sry I will make a addition that constructed trench only give a +1 save the rule was made to difaratiate trench from pill box and bunkers. yes the barbed wire should be a engeenere rule not a grenadeere job seen in hind sight.
I will move the cyclups up to Walker for pining purpose with the transport ability as a special rule.
I will see what I. Can do to refrasse the artillery rules.

Can any body come up with a good rule frassing for the artillery carriage that complie to what we have discussed here

The formation rule stays otherwise it would just be a IG list with new units I want to make a unik DKoK flawored list that have the feel of the Korps massive army’s it is technically only ment to be played in 5k+ battles

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 Post subject: Re: Death Korps of Krieg
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:04 pm 
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New version up here


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death korps of krieg V 3.2 3.pdf [406.1 KiB]
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 Post subject: Re: Death Korps of Krieg
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:04 pm 
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Personally, I would just make any stand that would have the 'artillery carriage' classed as Light Artillery and call it good. No need to over-complicate things. You seem to be basing the limitations on on the 'artillery carriage' and the 'heavy support teams' rules on W40K timescales. Those might be appropriate there, but Epic games work on a longer timescale, so it really isn't appropriate. In W40K, a single game turn probably covers a few minutes of time at the most, whereas a game turn of Epic covers about a half an hour of activity. Thus moving and firing is realistic.

In other words, if the Thudd Gun can move at Charge rate (which it can) then there is no reason that any other 'artillery carriage' based model could not. Also since the Thudd Gun can fire on Advance orders, there is no good reason that others could not. Not that I can see anyway. Admittedly, I am not very familiar with these newer models, so I could be wrong.

My suggestion, like what SquatWarlord said, would be to get rid of the "no charge and no fire on advance" rules, reduce their Move to 5cm, call them Light Artillery, and possibly give the really heavy ones the "Move or Fire" restriction. If you really, really want to keep these rules as you have them for flavor sake, you can do so of course. It just seems overly complicated for little benefit to me. And it makes it more difficult to apply the Points Formula to them.

Also, and I just noticed this, these two rules contradict each other. The 'artillery carriage' rules states that stands on Advance can fire, just not indirectly. (The no indirect fire on Advance rule is actually a core rule and really doesn't need to be mentioned here.) The 'heavy weapons teams' rule says that artillery carriage based weapons cannot fire on Advance orders. This error needs to be fixed.
________

Why would the Cyclops have Transport? It doesn't carry personnel, just explosives. Remember, the Transport ability is specifically and only used for carrying other stands or models. Yes, the Cyclops would have a crewman standing off somewhere working a remote control unit, but I doubt he would be strapped onto the hull like a grot. It would probably be best to consider the crewman like the launcher vehicle for a Termite or a Mole. In other words, it is assumed to be somewhere on the battlefield, but it has no combat value of its own, so it doesn't have to be represented.

On the other hand, having a separate stand for the controller would allow for it to be killed before the Cyclops reaches it's destination, thus rendering the Cyclops useless for that battle.

-----------------

From reading the new pdf:

Um, that is not how Clearing Minefields works for Engineers. See page 43 of the core rules. What you have now is even more suicidal than just moving through the Minefield.

Also, please use a different term than "Trench" for what the Entrenchment ability creates. I understand that your group uses a houserule for them, but the core rules does not. A "Trench" in the core rules has specific rules and values that apply to it. Since yours is different, you need to use a different term. "Foxhole" was suggested earlier, but if you do not like that then select something else.

Page 3 is still entirely blank. Is this intentional? It seems like a waste of space to me, and if someone goes to print this out they will get a blank page that they will have to pay for.

Please, please, reduce the font size around the stat blocks, or edit the width of the columns. It is mentally painful for me to see the F in CAF on a second line, or the "m" in "cm" on a second line. It is clear that you have changed the width of columns in some of the stat blocks. Please do so for all of them. It will look much better once that is corrected.

I'll look at more later.

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Sorry if any of this is inconvenient. I am just trying to help make this a better product that is more internally consistent with the rest of the rules.

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 Post subject: Re: Death Korps of Krieg
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:23 am 
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The heavy artillery is an earthshaker the only difference is that it has a less sophisticated tow system.
Foxholes vrs a trench. You can move along the trench and be protected once you move out of a fox hole the protection is lost.

Regarding thud gun and heavy mortar in 40k it states unless towed a quad launcher/heavy mortar is immobile. These two are called field artillery and can be pulled forward and quickly set up.
Both the earthshaker and Medusa are too large to be pulled by a Centaur they need a trojan which carries the crew and ammo. That also cannot be moved while deployed.
A Centaur is a fast vehicle it can carry 5 men plus tow a gun. While towing the gun it moves like a normal vehicle.

Cyclops is classified as a vehicle it has armor 10 all around. A Hellhound has 12/12 10. It has one crew with a control range of 50cm. It should blow up and use a standard 6cm blast template 6bp save -2. A Cyclops and it's operator count as 10 men = 2stands
It it gets shot it blows up with the same template.


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 Post subject: Re: Death Korps of Krieg
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:28 am 
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The Earthshaker is represented by two different models in NetEpic Gold. The Basilisk and the Earthshaker Platform. The Basilisk has its own Move value, as it is mounted in a Chimera hull, or something similar. The other has a Move of zero and cannot be moved once deployed at the beginning of a battle. Perhaps the latter would better represent the towed version you posted a picture of above.

The Medusa has stats already in the adeptusmilitaris pdf, and has a Move value of its own so it does not need to be towed.

I am sorry that the Thudd Gun is immobile in W40K, but as stated above it is not immobile in Epic, thus that point is not relevant. I still stand by the view that anything that uses the same chassis as the Thudd Gun does not have to be immobile, and in fact should not be. That said, they should probably have a Move of 5cm at most, as they shouldn't be moving far in any turn.

There is no such thing as "fast vehicle" or "normal vehicle" in Epic. There is just Vehicle with a Move value. Thus I do not understand that point. Right, so the Centaur should have the Tow ability. As I said, there are stats for this in the adeptusmilitaris pdf under the heading of Artillery Tractor.

While I could possibly be convinced to class the Cyclops as a Vehicle for NetEpic, it would take some doing, as I strongly doubt that it could pin a Rhino, Chimera, or even a Recon Vehicle in CC. Based on its size, it could probably pin a Dreadnought or Robot, but not anything larger. Also, classing it as Vehicle would mean that it would be impossible for it to fit in a Chimera, as the Chimera cannot Transport Vehicle-class models. As a Walker, it can still fit within any craft that can Transport at least 2 Infantry stands, if the optional rule that allows that is in play.

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 Post subject: Re: Death Korps of Krieg
PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 5:10 am 
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Attachment:
99590105326_HeavyArtilleryCarriagewithMedusa01.jpg
99590105326_HeavyArtilleryCarriagewithMedusa01.jpg [ 25.2 KiB | Viewed 542 times ]

It has the same carrage. All Earthshaker/Medusa guns share the same carrages either sell propelled or towed similar to real weapons

Fast vehicles are bikes, eldar falcons etc these are represented in Netepic with higher move values than normal vehicles
For the Centaur being a fast vehicle that could be represented with a 30cm move speed normally and a 20cm move speed while towing guns.

The Cyclops is called a vehicle due to the armor value but it is vehicle portable so what ever class works with this. It should never be pinned because anything it gets in closecombat range with, it will detonate. Ie if it charges something it explodes. If something charges it it will blow up. It is only safe to shoot at it to destroy it.


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99590105326_HeavyArtilleryCarriagewithMedusa01.jpg
99590105326_HeavyArtilleryCarriagewithMedusa01.jpg [ 25.2 KiB | Viewed 542 times ]
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