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Onslaught 6mm Combat - Rules Discussion

 Post subject: Re: Onslaught 6mm Combat - Rules Discussion
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 9:08 am 
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Your rum s Text is well written and I like it so far. It feels like a modern streamlined game. There are some thoughts about the structure. I thinki would put unit stats at the beginning otherwise you countless references will invoke confusion. Sure the experienced wargame will have no problem new players should be catered to as well.

I am not to fond of the regret text. But can't identify my issue.

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 Post subject: Re: Onslaught 6mm Combat - Rules Discussion
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 1:44 pm 
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Thanks DasBilligeAlien. I'll place the unit stats earlier in the document.

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 Post subject: Re: Onslaught 6mm Combat - Rules Discussion
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 2:35 pm 
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Next Section:

IV. Moving Units:

When executing some orders, models are physically moved across the table up to a number of centimeters equal to their Movement (MV) stat.

To move a unit, select a single model in the unit, and move it to it’s new location, making sure it does not exceed its MV stat in cm. Models can move in any direction they wish, and make as many turns as they wish during this move. It is sometimes important to know the exact path this “Lead Model” takes as it moves – especially when there are enemy models waiting to Ambush you (Ambushes are described under the “Overwatch” section of this rulebook).

After the lead model is moved, all other models in its unit are moved to join it, and must be placed according to unit formation restrictions. Once models are placed, they may be turned to face any direction you wish. A unit’s facing is important when shooting – especially for vehicles. Remember that no model can move more than it’s MV stat in centimeters.

Unit Formation -
Every model in Onslaught is represented by one or more miniatures mounted to a base of various sizes. When moving your units, you are required to keep each model within a certain distance of at least one other model in their unit. This is called "Unit Formation". Unit formation is 3cm for infantry and cavalry models, 6cm for vehicle models, and 12cm for Flyers. This means the maximum distance between an infantry base and another model's base in its unit is 3cm, while vehicles can be up to 6cm away from other models in its unit, and Flyers 12cm. If a unit has one or more models further away from any other model in their unit (due to casualties for instance), the model is considered to be "Out of Formation".

Image
The Infantry model on the left is out of formation, as it is too far away from any other model in the unit.


If your unit is out of formation, and is issued an order which allows it to move, it must move in a way which will bring the unit back into formation if at all possible.

For each model out of formation after a unit is issued an order, the unit gains 1 stress token.

Terrain -
The Terrain that can be found on your typical battlefield can block or slow units that attempt to move through it. Terrain will have one of four effects on any unit that moves onto it:

No Effect: The unit can move freely through this terrain with no effect on its movement.

Difficult: You must spend 2cm of movement for each cm moved through difficult terrain.

Dangerous: The terrain can prove fatal or disabling to the unit as it moves through it. Each time this terrain is entered by an affected model, roll a dice. If a 1-3 is rolled, the unit takes an automatic hit with no save roll.

Impassable: The unit may not move onto or through the terrain at all. If a unit is forced to move into such terrain for any reason, it is immediately destroyed.

Below is listed various types of terrain and the effects it has on each type of unit. The battlefields of the universe can feature an endless variety of terrain, so if your battlefield features terrain types that are not listed here, bizarre alien geography for example, make sure all players know the type of effects it has on the game. The easiest way to do this is to pick a “normal” terrain feature that it most resembles, but if everyone agrees, feel free to make your own house rules for it.

Image


Some terrain effects are impassable to all units - sheer cliffs, canyons, deep water, boiling lava flows, etc. If such terrain exists on the table, make sure that all players know that the terrain in question is impassable to every unit in play - though it should be fairly obvious.

Embarking & Disembarking -
A unit may choose to board another friendly unit with the “transport” trait, so long as it’s the appropriate type. For example - many APCs have the “Transport X Infantry” trait, allowing it to carry “X” number of infantry models. Some large Transports may be allowed to Transport Cavalry or even Vehicle units.

In order for a unit to “Embark” upon another, two criteria must be met. First, the unit attempting to embark must be of the allowed type. Second, the Transport model or unit must have enough space to accommodate the entire embarking unit. If these criteria are met, then the embarking unit may board the desired transports by using a “Charge”, “Advance”, or “Rally” order. As long as at least one model in the unit can reach base-to-base contact their chosen transports, the entire unit is considered to have boarded their transports.

Once embarked, remove the unit from the table, but keep note of which model or unit is transporting it. Units that are being transported may only be issued “Advance” or “Rally” orders. Once an embarked unit receives an “Advance” or “Rally” order, place all transported units within base contact of their transports, and then move them normally. Alternatively, you may choose to keep the unit embarked - in which case the transported unit does nothing for the turn but remain in their transports. Some Transports have the "Fire Ports x" trait which will allow transported units to fire their weapons from the transport as part of an Advance order, from the arc/s listed as "x".

If a Transport model is destroyed while another unit is embarked within it, place the embarked models in base contact with their transports. Each transported model takes an automatic hit and must roll their Armor Save to survive. Each model lost in this way generates a stress token for the transported unit.

That's all for this section - next up, Ballistic Comabt. Thoughts?

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 Post subject: Re: Onslaught 6mm Combat - Rules Discussion
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 3:52 am 
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I do like the formation rules, and the movement rules look good so far; Noticing that you have not yet taken skimmers into effect, so ids that going to be part of standard vehicle movement?
For my part, I'd use the same columns and have Skimmers as No Effect/Difficult/Difficult/Impassable. That seems more reasonable and also gives a small advantage to Skimmer forces in some areas.

Other than that, no problems - These rules are looking very good and a lot more straightforward than many other 6mm rules out there (y)


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 Post subject: Re: Onslaught 6mm Combat - Rules Discussion
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 9:37 am 
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I really like the rules so far. They are very clear and well written.
Regarding set orders system, I do find it interesting, but problematic at the same time. You would need tokens with orders on them (quite a lot) or tokens with numbers and a sheet of paper where yoy write which number does what.
I would include this as an optional rule for longer strategical engagements rather than being an obligatory rule.

I very like blind bag activations, I only played bolt action once, but I really liked what it brought to the game. I belive it already is limitiing player enough, so you don't need set orders system.

I am really looking forward to these rules and getting some models. Regarding unit size, I would prefer it to be quite small, I mean we have Net EA where infantry company consists of 13 stands so I hope here a size for a standard infantry unit would be around 6 in this gamw. I don't know what you have in mind but that's my suggestion.

Either way, I can't wait to learn more.

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 Post subject: Re: Onslaught 6mm Combat - Rules Discussion
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 2:44 am 
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Quote:
I very like blind bag activations, I only played bolt action once, but I really liked what it brought to the game. I belive it already is limitiing player enough, so you don't need set orders system.


I've mainly played "roll for initiative" games and have to admit, if you throw a handful of snake eyes a couple turns it will be the end for most forces, so that sounds like an improvement; However there is also the Dirtside 2 approach of the force with the smallest smallest number of elements gets to move the first element, which also makes things fairer as a game progresses. Anyway, something new or different would be good.

Quote:
I am really looking forward to these rules and getting some models. Regarding unit size, I would prefer it to be quite small, I mean we have Net EA where infantry company consists of 13 stands so I hope here a size for a standard infantry unit would be around 6 in this gamw. I don't know what you have in mind but that's my suggestion.


6 stands of five infantry is 30 troops, which is a standard sort of platoon in modern warfare anyway; I personally think that 24-30 troops per platoon is a manageable approach to 6mm games, especially as it means transport elements can be as few as 3-6 vehicles depending on size and capacity. Sounds a very solid suggestion to me ;D


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 Post subject: Re: Onslaught 6mm Combat - Rules Discussion
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 3:48 am 
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ForgottenLore wrote:
mordoten wrote:
I agree on not using set orders. It's more fun to react to the other players moves.


I disagree. Needing to lan out your turn in advance does a lot to shift the focus of the game from list building to actually strategizing.


I have yet to play a game where this actually turned out to be fun. Bolt Action and it’s successor rulesets have shown that pulling order dice from a bag is a pretty solid initiative system.


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 Post subject: Re: Onslaught 6mm Combat - Rules Discussion
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 3:54 am 
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pixelgeek wrote:
ForgottenLore wrote:
mordoten wrote:
I agree on not using set orders. It's more fun to react to the other players moves.


I disagree. Needing to lan out your turn in advance does a lot to shift the focus of the game from list building to actually strategizing.


I have yet to play a game where this actually turned out to be fun. Bolt Action and it’s successor rulesets have shown that pulling order dice from a bag is a pretty solid initiative system.


Not sure what planning orders has to do with initiative.

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 Post subject: Re: Onslaught 6mm Combat - Rules Discussion
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 7:01 pm 
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Hey guys - great feedback!

So - I've been mulling over the order thing, and I wanted to bounce an alternative idea off the community.

I want there to be an advantage to having overwhelming odds - and I think random draw does this, but maybe not in the best way.

So I got to thinking - WHY are having the odds in your favor a positive? How does this translate on real battlefields? I think it boils down to the side with inferior numbers being forced to respond to more hostile situations than the other side - having to consider multiple points of attack, having to contend with multiple points of opposition when advancing, etc. when the opposite is true for a force with superior numbers. They are more capable to drawing out the enemy, setting up ambushes, distraction and the like.

I also want to drive home a sense that combat is constantly taking place, rather than you-go-I-go.

So what about an action/reaction system? Activations are carried out in an alternating fashion, but each action can trigger enemy reactions - in both cases, this counts as the units "turn". A token is placed on any unit that takes an action or a reaction. Once all units have a token - the turn ends and a new one begins.

Some examples off the top of my head:

- March (Action) : Move the unit up to double its MV stat.
- Engage (Action) : Move the unit up to its MV stat and fire all weapon Systems. Or Fire weapons and then move.
- Focused Fire (Action) : The unit does not move, but fires all of their weapon systems with a +1 bonus on all "Hit" rolls.
- Rally (Action) : The unit may roll to remove stress tokens and then Move or Shoot, or Move or Shoot and then roll to remove stress.

- Intercept (Reaction) : If a unit moves, enemy units that can draw LOS to the lead unit can fire on it as it moves. Multiple enemy units can intercept a moving unit - and all shooting is resolved at the end of the units move. If the moving unit benefits from cover at any point during its move - the Intercepting unit/s suffer the associated penalties to their Hit rolls.
- Return Fire (Reaction) : If a unit shoots, enemy units that are fired upon can return fire. The target unit may fire its weapons at the firing unit. All shooting rolls are simultaneous - meaning casualties are only removed after all shots from both units are resolved.
- Take Cover (Reaction) : (Infantry Only) If targeted by enemy shooting, an infantry unit can Take cover - place a "Cover" token on the unit. For the current shooting roll, and the rest of the turn, any "Hit" roll against the unit suffers a -1 penalty.

These are rough ideas - but I think you get the idea.

Thoughts?

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 Post subject: Re: Onslaught 6mm Combat - Rules Discussion
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 8:42 pm 
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I like the concept, but I don't exactly know how well it would play out. I meam it looks good on paper but will it be as good during the game.

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 Post subject: Re: Onslaught 6mm Combat - Rules Discussion
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 9:08 pm 
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You may want to take a look at Kampfgruppe Commander by David Reynolds. This is a WW2 set of rules where each stand represents a platoon. It has a initiative/reaction system which is quite intuitive but takes a bit of getting used used to. Basically one side activates a unit and the other player may attempt to react to hit depending on battlefield conditions and unit quality.

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 Post subject: Re: Onslaught 6mm Combat - Rules Discussion
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:56 pm 
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I really like that action/reaction concept.
One question would be what happens if one unit chooses engage, and another unit chooses Intercept.
Would the first unit get to shoot with the units alive at the beginning of the turn, or only after casualties are removed?

I like that no reactions involve movement, and that reactions can only respond to movement(or direct targetings), meaning you can't have a cascade of reactions between players. Although ... blast damage may cause issues?

I think that you may need to limit the number of reactions you can make in response to any one action.
If a unit moves, and the opponent can then shoot at them with every unit, many games will become a standoff.
Perhaps 3 units may react to any one action, meaning that a player might have to use disposable troops for early moves, but are not completely unwilling to engage first.

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 Post subject: Re: Onslaught 6mm Combat - Rules Discussion
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:15 pm 
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Bertnernie - I think I like it quite a bit too. Reactions will - I believe make combat seem more dynamic, but also give advantages to being aggressive (Actions are more effective in general than reactions). You can also use them to "bait" enemy units in you activate your units in a cleaver manner...

To answer you questions:
The unit would only get to fire with the units it has left after the move and intercept firing are complete. If this resulted in the unit gaining more stress tokens than it has Damage remaining - it would have to retreat instead of firing at all.

Blast Damage works differently in this game - I don't intend to use templates as I see them clunky and able to be "gamed". Instead - barrage weapons cause additional hits on the unit it it passes the to hit roll, often randomized with bonuses for particularly large ordnance.

As for limiting reactions - I'd like to see how it plays out. If I move a unit and the enemy reacts with half his army to destroy it - so be it. But that will result in a LOT of wasted activations. Add this to the fact that victory will require moving units and capturing objectives and such - I doubt it will be an issue.

I welcome any other thoughts - but I think the Action / Reaction system is the way to go...

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 Post subject: Re: Onslaught 6mm Combat - Rules Discussion
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 5:41 pm 
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Back to it - Onto Ballistic Combat.

V. Ballistic Combat:

Shooting Procedure -
When a unit is issued an order that allows it to fire, it may target enemy units with ranged attacks. Note – Units may not target enemy models that are currently Engaged in close combat, unless they possess a trait that states otherwise.

To execute a Ballistic attack, follow the following procedure:

1. Gather Dice:
Create a pool of dice for each weapon system being used. Each weapon system contributes a number of dice equal to its “Attacks” stat. If multiple Weapon systems are being fired, multiple colored dice can be very helpful.

2. Allocate Dice:
Allocate each dice pool (weapon system) to an enemy unit within line of sight. If firing as part of an overwatch action, (Or Intercept or Return Fire Reaction if I go with the action/reaction system..)then all of the unit's weapon systems must be fired at the acting enemy unit.

3. Check Range:
Measure the distance from the firing unit to each target unit. If at least one model in the firing unit has range to the target – the attack may proceed. If the distance is greater than the weapon systems “Range” Value, the attack is out of range, and the dice allocated to the unit is discarded – the attack has failed. Note – ranges are measured from a model’s base – not the actual model itself.

Important Note: Weapon ranges may never be measured until this point in the firing sequence. You must use your best judgement when issuing Fire Orders!

4. Assign Stress Tokens:
Each unit that comes under attack and is within range gains 1 stress token before any dice are rolled, regardless of how many weapon systems are targeting them.

5. Roll for hits:
The attacking player rolls each dice pool to determine how many attack dice hit the target. The score required depends on the “Classification” of the target unit. Each dice that rolls the minimum value or higher – scores a hit on the target unit. Rolls of “1” always fail regardless of modifiers.

Image

6. Roll for Armor:
The Defending player takes each dice that hit, and rolls them again in an attempt to negate them. In order to negate a hit, the defending player must roll equal to or higher than the Armor Value of the unit being hit. Subtract the weapon systems “Strength” value from every armor roll. For each dice that rolls less than this value – the unit takes “a hit”. If the strength of a weapon renders the saving roll impossible – there is no need to roll – the models armor is not strong enough to deflect the attack.

7. Apply Additional Stress tokens:
Each “hit” causes the target unit to gain an additional stress token.

8. Apply Damage:
Take each hit dice that was not negated, and apply them to models in the target unit, starting with the model closest to the firing unit, and continue to the furthest model. (Only models that are within line of sight to at least one model in the firing unit can be targeted) Each dice causes a number of damage points to the model equal to the weapon systems “Damage” stat. If a target model has more than one Damage Point – continue to apply hit dice until it is destroyed. Excessive damage is not carried over from one model to the next.

Important Note: You can only ever destroy a number of models equal to or less than the number of unsaved hit dice during an attack - maximum. Excess damage is not transferred to other models!

If the number of damage points applied to a model during an attack is not enough to destroy it - apply that many damage tokens to the unit. These damage points are retained by the target unit, and can be added to by future attacks.

ImageImage


Ballistic Combat Example: The Sisterhood Themis squad fires at the Hellborn Cultists. The Themis Squad is armed with Assault Shotguns, which shoot 15cm, with 1 attack. The Sisterhood player follows the following sequence:

1. Gather Dice: Each model rolls a single dice when shooting – so the Sisterhood player creates a pool of 5 dice.

2. Allocate Dice: The Themis Squad allocates these dice to the cultist unit. If they had multiple weapon systems, each weapon system could be allocated to a different enemy unit.

3. Check Range: The Sisterhood player checks range. The enemy unit is 15cm away – so the attack is in range. If the Cultists were over the max range of the Assault Shotguns – 15cm, then the attack would have failed.

4. Assign Stress Token: Before rolling for hits, the cultists gain 1 stress token.

5. Roll For Hits: The Sisterhood player rolls his atack dice and scores 1,1,4,4, and 6. Because the Cultists are classified as Infantry, a score of 4 or more is required to hit them. This means that 3 dice resulted in hits.

6. Roll For Armor: If the Cultists had any armor – they would roll to negate these hits now. However, because they have no Armor Value, each of these dice cause damage.

7. Apply Additional Stress Tokens: Because the Cultists suffered 3 unsaved hits, they gain an additional 3 stress tokens.

8. Apply Damage: Starting with the Cultist model closest to the Themis squad, these remaining dice are assigned to models in the cultist unit. This results in the destruction of 3 Cultist models. Assault Shotguns do one damage – but if they caused 2 or more damage, 3 models would still have been eliminated.

The Cultists have been reduced to 3 models and have 4 stress tokens – the next time they are activated, they will be forced to Retreat.


Line of Sight –
When determining line of sight – mark out a straight line from the firing unit to the target using a straight edge like a ruler or measuring tape. If this line does not pass through any model or terrain feature, and originates in the Weapon Systems fire arc, line of sight is clear, and shooting can be executed normally as described above.

You may need to check line of sight from individual models to see which models in the same unit can draw line of sight to the target unit. Each model that does not have line of sight to the target cannot add their dice to the weapon system dice pool.

Line of sight can be obstructed or blocked entirely in some circumstances, and that can affect the shooting procedure in a number of ways.

Obscured Line of sight:
This occurs when line of sight passes through a terrain feature that only partially conceals the target model, or if the target is in difficult terrain for its class (while moving in such terrain is cumbersome, it also provides some degree of cover…) Line of sight is Obscured, and this makes the target harder to hit. When shooting at obscured targets, you must subtract 1 from your hit rolls against that target.

Attackers may fire at targets in forest or forest-like terrain up to 3cm from the terrain features edge and vice versa – this obscures line of sight. Anything deeper into such terrain is considered to be blocked for line of sight purposes.

When shooting at enemy units which contain a mix of obscured and non-obscured target models - divide the dice pool into "normal" and "obscured" to hit dice. The obscured to hit dice suffer the -1 to hit penalty, and can only be assigned to models that are obscured. Likewise, the "normal" to hit dice are resolved normally, and can only be applied to non-obscured models.

Blocked Line of Sight:
This occurs when line of sight passes through a terrain feature which completely covers the target and hides them from sight. Models blocked from line of sight cannot be targeted for shooting attacks.

Units can also block line of sight to each other – so long as line of sight passes through another unit of a larger classification. This “Classification size Hierarchy” is as follows:

Large Vehicle > Vehicle > Large Infantry / Calvary > Infantry / Cavalry


For example – line of sight targeting a Vehicle can pass through Infantry, but line of sight targeting Infantry would be blocked by a vehicle unit.

As long as a unit is in formation, the entire space occupied by the unit blocks like of sight. You cannot, for example, draw line of sight though the "gaps" between models in the same unit.

Flyers do not block line of sight to any other unit.

Fire Arcs -
When Drawing line of sight to an enemy unit, you must also take into account a weapon system's fire arc. If an enemy target lies outside of a weapon systems fire arc – it may not be targeted for attack by that model (though other models in its unit may be able to…)

There are 3 different types of Weapon arc traits as detailed below.

By default – Infantry and Cavalry have a “360” arc applied to all of their weapon systems, while weapon systems on Vehicles have a “Front 180” fire arc unless otherwise noted in the “Weapon Traits” field.

Image


That's all for this section - next up, Assaults. Thoughts?

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 Post subject: Re: Onslaught 6mm Combat - Rules Discussion
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:50 pm 
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One of the things I keep going back and forth on is allowing individual models to fire at different enemy units... Right now - if a model does not have line of sight to the target enemy unit, or it falls outside their weapon arc, it simply does not contribute to the dice pool...

The problem would be stress. I don't want a single unit to run out and divide fire among a bunch of enemy units just to spread a bunch of cheap stress tokens around...

I guess I could make it so the initial stress token is only applied if at least one dice actually hits the unit. That way, if you spread fire too thin, the chances of inflicting any stress is diminished...

Thoughts?

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