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Vanguard Miniatures the future

 Post subject: Re: Vanguard Miniatures the future
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:21 pm 
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Great to hear. Considering the high speed of improvement in the designs of both Don and Ben, I am looking forward to the next release.

Granted, there have been some bold decisions that have likely not increased throughput. As you mentioned, scale is one. Markedly bigger minis than the installed base means you need to provide almost everything for an army, otherwise most with incomplete older armies will not buy anything. Onslaught I find more compatible, though, paradoxically, a bit smaller. Especially the vehicles.

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 Post subject: Re: Vanguard Miniatures the future
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:42 pm 
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I know that you guys lost a LOT of money on making the plastic sprues. It makes me really sad because it was destined to be great success. Yes, you all have a point that those plastics are very cost-effective but I still don't like them. :(

I hope that launching the new AT game by GW will bring new customers for you too, especially that AFAIK it is going to be titan/knight only game without infantry, tanks or aircraft.

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 Post subject: Re: Vanguard Miniatures the future
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:48 pm 
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Glad that you intend to keep going. If you can upscale items for little cost and attract new customers for cross over selling then go for it. Just be careful you don't start stepping on granny's toes at 28mm.

I think you need to find a way to do a bit of market research. Participation here is limited nowadays. Not sure how much you get on facebook? You have alluded to the enthusiasm of the minority meaning models have been made which have a limited wider appeal. You must have a lot of old customer emails (people who actually order your stuff) - perhaps send out a survey asking specific questions about what system they play, what armies they have, what they would like to see etc and cross reference. You could offer small discount on new items for participation if you think it needs incentivising.

You seem to have stopped the pre-order system? That at least seemed a way to guarantee you costs were covered. Was it too much to administer?

I think the focus on infantry is ok, but i would say The vehicle designs are the strength of TMG. I suspect the infantry is popular because they can be compatible with other ranges more easily. I see that the centurions are comparable with the GW scale which is a good start. I would continue as you are but reign in the size (just a little) on new releases.

Likewise, the unaligned spikey infantry also look good, but i would suggest trying it out on the pre-order system first. Is there a big market? I didn't want to put a downer on the preview shots we have seen (as they look great) but Is the infantry the big barrier to people doing a corrupted guard army? Or is it more likely the increasing unavailability of daemon engines etc and the need to scratch build them? And if daemon engines are available would those people have instead made do with one if the other infantry types and a corrupted paint job? It is 6mm after all. Not only that, but it directly competes with the onslaught Hellborn line.

For corrupted, i see the big issues to get hold of nowadays is fighters/bombers and war engines imho.

And finally, are they just not a popular army cos the rules are a bit pants? (Genuine question - never played against a vraks or LATD army - but vraks isn't even in EpicUK).

Having said all this, you have mentioned you are doing scouts for your elite novans which is great - they are essential for EA (though in small numbers : 4-8 stands per army mostly.) Though again, could people make do with storm troopers? Possibly.

Again, my perspective is EpicUK focused, not sure how important that makes it to your overall sales?

Sorry for harsh questions - but maybe best to receive hard constructive criticism before they are made rather than after! :-)

Finally, sorry to be so down on the the HH - is this stuff this selling well? (I like a lot of it, i just have no use for it.) If so, perhaps the cybershadows would be a good focus next? Some modular stompy robots and jumpy robots and thats looking pretty good with some of the novan proxies working for the vehicals? Plus it might be a set of designs which people are less attached the to originals and therefore more open to proxies?

By the way, thanks for the first prize in the TMG epiccomp. (Thought i had replied to your email way back but it seems not). Don't think i really deserve a prize with only two entries (and the minis came direct from Ben years ago anyway) but at least i can say i beat Apoc in a painting comp! :-)

Good luck!



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 Post subject: Re: Vanguard Miniatures the future
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:53 pm 
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Worth noting that sales of onslaught stuff in the UK will have been small over christmas due to the hls models half price sale. I realise this dsnt make up for a year of non sales, but worth keeping in mind.

The infantry focus sounds pretty sensible! from all other epic scale manufacturers (EW/DRM/MWG) infantry is what i buy most of.
As others (including yourself) have said, the novan elite vehicles suffer from the larger scale. It might well make them perfect for the new 8mm epic, and I get that they make 'true scale' sense, but also makes most (though not all) of them a complete no-go for me as they are incompatible with my existing 100s of tanks. that said, very interested in the novan elite SHTs (please dont overscale them :0) …

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 Post subject: Re: Vanguard Miniatures the future
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:11 pm 
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@ Nitpick, I have been somewhat confined with model sizes due to the original trojan model as stated already but overall my models aren't drastically over sized after all I do have a massive collection of older epic models myself and want my new models to fit with those. The mauler is around spartan sized and could fill that roll, the guardian and sniper are pretty much sicaran sized when compared with certain unmentionable models you see from time to time being a little wider due to the armour panels aesthetic.

My intention was and still is to provide a comlete range of models for each army I do with obviously the super soldiers getting the main attention at this time. Still have a siege mortar version of the trojan to do and the SHT's to print with scouts on the cards as well and maybe some bikes.

@ brother_bethor, AT may well bring in new blood but i'm not pinning any hopes on that happening really it's more likely to pull customers away from 6mm than create them.

@ Blip, well ben's doing the larger scale stuff i'm just selling it so GW can't touch me ha. ;D

The market research idea has merit and could be something to try but I had hoped the polls in my vanguard section would have been sufficiant to direct my attention towards what's needed, I shall think on this idea.

The pre order system was another bust people just will not part with their money before the product is ready so pre orders were very few in number and not worth bothering with. In total from the last big batch of release I didn't get enough pre orders to cover the cost of a single new model nevermind a dozen. So pre orders are not likely to happen again at least not in the short term anyway.

Infantry sets are by far my best sellers so this is where I will focus my resources, there are loads of additional vehicles I want to do for the various races and I will still be releasing new vehicles just at a reduced rate.

I think I need to add dimensions to my site on the newer vehicle models it seems there is a general feeling that all my models are way to big when in fact this is not the case in most situations. Case in point with the centurion it's a little higher than the SG model because i've got the turret high enough to clear the tracks so it can rotate 360 degrees and not be fouled by the tracks which the SG model is. Overall it's pretty much the same size as can be seen in the image posted elsewhere on this forum.

I will admit my chimera proxy the warrior is a lot bigger than a GW or FW chimera model as we wanted to be able to use the huill for other designs like the dragn and SPG artillery hull which needed a big hull. This model could be redced in scale to fit better with other models of similar function but i'm not sure it's worth it with th amount of alternative models out there.

The tainted undecided infantry sets will be done because well I want them, this faction is missing from my range and needs to be done i'm sure I can do justice to the tainted faction infantry wise if not vehicles there are huge plans for this faction. Besides just painting guard types in alternative colours is just not right we need proper figures chaos has always been the poor relation in this regards it's time to redress the balance.

As for directly competing with the onslaught line of helborn figures i'm not seeing that at all the figures he has are cultist types where as i'm doing actual soldiers here. Besides no one has complained about onslaught doing human military forces which was until now my field to play in. There's room for us both to have this sort of thing in our ranges and who knows we may even collaborate on a few things sometime.

I cannot focus on providing minis for just one version of epic there are many versions of the game played by a diverse group of player for me if an armies crap in any particular version of a game then it's the fault of the army list or rules not the models. :D

And besides chaos is just so cool with so many options to play with why not serve those chaos powers and give yourself to the dark side. :o

The HH stuff is not flying off the shelves but they are doing well enough to continue ans complete things. Ad Mech or cybershadow's from my perspective will see a lot of love down the line a little we have so many more concepts available for this faction since ben's original releases. So yes robots will join all new infantry as funds allow.

I'm happy to receive harsh feedback otherwise how do I know what i'm doiing wrong.

No problem always happy to support events.

Cheers John

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 Post subject: Re: Vanguard Miniatures the future
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:14 pm 
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Actually December was my best month ever for orders go figure.

Onslaught is mostly infantry centric and that's what sells with that range to i've no complaints with infantry sales vehicles however can be another story.

The SHT's should be regular SHT sized.

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 Post subject: Re: Vanguard Miniatures the future
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:20 pm 
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moredakka wrote:
I think I need to add dimensions to my site on the newer vehicle models it seems there is a general feeling that all my models are way to big when in fact this is not the case in most situations.

Yes. Please do this. Some general scale comparison pics and sizes.

This is exactly the case with me. I *know* stuff like the centurion is a compatible size if i think rationally, but my knee jerk reaction to a lot of vehicles in the range is 'that's a neat design, shame it's the the wrong size' <-- pretty much exactly what you're descirbing.

If there were clear dimensions and some size comparison on the sales page (not buried on taccom) that would help.

(that said, im very satisfied with the couple of DiD vehicles i do have – especially the skinnerz tanks that someone else was praising on here last week as well)

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 Post subject: Re: Vanguard Miniatures the future
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:28 pm 
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Thanks i'll try to get that in place when i've the time dimensions and comp pics are indeed needed, I did add mauler dimensions the other day as someone emailed me looking for the info but my returm email kept on bouncing back to me so he never got a reply he probably thinks i'm an ignorant ba***rd for not responding when in fact I did.

Oh well.

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 Post subject: Re: Vanguard Miniatures the future
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:44 pm 
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Can't win them all.

I have been here long enough to remember how the true scale trend began and spread. It certainly predates your titanic efforts and I appreciate the the inherited situation you are in. Measurements and comparisons is great stuff! Not something seen very often at retailers, so that would be a great service.

I bought a set of the new very nice looking trucks recently. I am afraid they are way too big. For me. Compared them to my rather tiny Onslaught limos, they are on the other end of the scale. Did not look like they would be the same class of vehicle. Managed to sell them to a fellow taccomer, though. He really liked them, so mileage certainly varies.

On the one hand, I find rational arguments about plugging gaps suit my needs. On the other hand, I understand fully that the element of personal satisfaction is hugely important too keep spirits up.

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 Post subject: Re: Vanguard Miniatures the future
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:59 am 
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Measurements etc would definitely be a great help.

Sorry to hear of difficulties with what I guess is quite a niche market still, but I think what has been done with Vanguard/DID etc already is great. Unfortunately my wife and I also bought a house about the same time Vanguard started, so my funds have been limited while we conduct first assaults on the mortgage. But there's toys I will want again before too long. Including the temptation to replace my crappy old GW orks with the multi-pose DID Skinnerz infantry.

Crushers are one of my favourite models, two larger variants would be awesome to complete the Skinnerz range, (together with Skinnerz with Jump packs!). ;)
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 Post subject: Re: Vanguard Miniatures the future
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:50 am 
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Shame to hear things aren't selling so well but I'm not overly surprised. The community isn't that large these days and lots of older players have large existing collections. Personally due to low income, debt and expensive things to save for in time my hobby spending is very rare these days and what I do buy I prefer to go for alternative models as close to their larger counterparts as possible.

Wandering a bit OT here but what ever did happen to development on a HH epic list? Did interest fizzle out or did development switch over go the Australian forums? (I seem to remember it was an Australian that was championing it years ago wasn't it?). Could those in contact with them badger the Epic-UK playtesters/designers to create a HH list to use alongside existing lists at their tournaments? I wouldn't expect separate lists for each legion, but one generic list for a HH legion with their different organisation and extra tanks would be great and would provide uses for the models some of us have or would buy.


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 Post subject: Re: Vanguard Miniatures the future
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:23 am 
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@Glyn - HH development is going strong over at EpicAU : http://epicau.com/mw/index.php/Main_Page There are lists there for many (if not all) legions, plus mechanicum, knights, daemons, solar Aux, etc. Not played them myself, but would like to.

Unfortunately this move seems to have splintered off the Australians onto their own forum, not helped by the technical problems on Taccoms last year.


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 Post subject: Re: Vanguard Miniatures the future
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:28 pm 
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Completely OT here but if you want to use a HH legion at an epicUK event then you should just use the iron warriors list, it is the closest thing to a legion list, it has bigger formations, basilisks, superheavies (typhon as stormsword, fellblade as decimator, falchion as ordinatus) lots of vindicators and even a good primarch proxy in the daemon prince, there is pretty much no need to develop a HH list for EpicUK IMO

/threadjack

Ahem, back to Vanguard miniatures....

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 Post subject: Re: Vanguard Miniatures the future
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:07 pm 
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And formations of dreadnoughts...


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 Post subject: Re: Vanguard Miniatures the future
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:36 pm 
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Sorry to hear that Vanguard.
Like many others my mountain of lead, and subsequent guilt and shame, combined with existing armies and available funds precludes me from showing you greater custom.
I wait with baited breath on future stygian onslaught releases though, and always wanted a skinners army!

I personally find it hard to invest in, build and paint an army if it is 1. Not competitive and 2. Available in a complete range.

Thanks for your continued commitment to our great hobby.
Cheers
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