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Hive Fleet Gorgon netEA 0.6

 Post subject: Hive Fleet Gorgon netEA 0.6
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 4:34 am 
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Hi!
I really liked the Leviathan list and was sad to see it slow to a halt and disappear from development. I've been pm:ing with Dave about getting a similar list back in development and have volunteered to be the sublist-AC.

This is not a straight of copy of the Leviathan list, but rather inspired by it. To be clear that it's not the same and to not step on any toes I've used another name. I've also looked up the current edition 40k rules for inspiration. Below I present the Hive Fleet Gorgon list.

The basic tactic of tyranids is of course hard to change (and not something I want to do) so most list will have a similar theme. I still think a leviathan/newer nids kind of list ha a place. My hope is not just to bring in a lot of new units, but to actually give alternative strategies. I think the inclusion of drop podding, the flying swarms/units (basic and independent) gives some interesting alternatives.

I've used the current netEA stats were units are the same except for the zoanthrope as that has clearly developed into a synapse creature with later editions of the tyranids.

Some points
  • Gone are dactylis and malfactors. I've introduced BP weapons in some other places, but they are considerably more short ranged.
  • Special rules are the same, except for one addition. I want us to test a small boost to the lesser creatures and also to promote synapse. Under synpase add: In addition to swarming a tyranid formation may ignore one hack down kill for each point of synapse remaining.
  • I've brought the hierodule more in line with current 40k fluff/forgeworld. The hierophant rules are also based on the forge world unit rather than the old epic model, but I have used the onachus cost and rules as a guide. I've also tried to introduce a bit of customization. Titans seemed like a fitting place at epic scale to represent a bit of the ever evolving theme the fluff suggests.
  • The most obvious difference to levithan is the army list structure. Never was a fan of the cluster building thing. I've retained the basic swarm from onachus and it's the base of the list, but have used the brute swarm as well. I think most formations from the list can still be made. I've also introduced a new concept with the winged core swarm. I'm particulary interested in feedback on the latter.
  • I want most swarms to have synapse and that's why the tunneler swarm is changed and why exocrine swarm from onachus has been incorporated into the brute swarm. Some exceptions still exist (independent swarms) for units that I thought should really be independent. The bio artillery swarm is perhaps the odd bird that should also have a synapse creature? Didn't think of any good synapse candidate. Suggestions for this formation? Make it part of the brute swarm?
  • Hive tyrant CC-version. Unnecessary perhaps? To good with wings in mind? I don't think so with the winged formation primarily being a FF oriented one, but still interested in your thoughts. Mostly wanted to give some modeling opportunities.

Can't think of anything more right now. I hope you enjoy the list. Please give me your feedback and I hope there's more than me around here who'd like to see a list based on the current tyranids.

2018-07-12
Changes based on above discussions and som additions. They're listed below and are higlighted in the document by the color blue.
  • Tyranid swarm cost typo fixed (now 200pts)
  • added sky-slasher unts. Also changed the wording for the swarm to note
  • Symbiote option added to brute and terror swarm
  • Zoanthrope added to bio artillery swarm. Price up.
  • Lictor upgrade cost lowered
  • Sky warm cost lowered to 175
  • Removed one carnifex version. Now only barbed and scythed
  • Tyrannofex slight upgrade.
  • added playtest proposal to special rules
Attachment:
Hive Fleet Gorgon 0.6.pdf [219.43 KiB]
Downloaded 7 times



Older versions:

2018-05-09
Attachment:
Hive Fleet Gorgon 0.5.pdf [124.7 KiB]
Downloaded 63 times


Last edited by Borka on Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:15 am, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Hive Fleet Gorgon netEA 0.5
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 6:34 am 
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Looks good!

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 Post subject: Re: Hive Fleet Gorgon netEA 0.5
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 12:15 pm 
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Looking good! Would be nice to have a special rules section tho. Is this list supposed to use the rules for synapse being playtested for Onachus btw?

You could always pair the bio-artillery up with Zoanthropes or Tyranid Warriors.

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 Post subject: Re: Hive Fleet Gorgon netEA 0.5
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 5:56 pm 
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Mrdiealot wrote:
Looking good!

Thanks! :)

Mrdiealot wrote:
Would be nice to have a special rules section tho.

Ok I will fix that for the next iteration.

Quote:
Is this list supposed to use the rules for synapse being playtested for Onachus btw?

I've testetd 5 games with the playtest rule (both with and against it) and I've had mixed reviews from those I've played. From to powerful to ok and fluffy. Personally I think it's good and not to powerful.
Always better to be cautious when developing lists however. I've tried to put more synapse in this list and I thought it might be better with a light version of the playtest proposal. Hence my suggestion of ignore one hack down kill per synapse point instead. A tyranid player will not win more engagements with this suggestion, but will survive them better to attack again and again. Sort of like how the fluff describes them of coming in wave after wave.

Quote:
You could always pair the bio-artillery up with Zoanthropes or Tyranid Warriors.

Yes those are probably the best fit.


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 Post subject: Re: Hive Fleet Gorgon netEA 0.5
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 6:55 pm 
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That version of the Synapse rule is interesting!

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 Post subject: Re: Hive Fleet Gorgon netEA 0.5
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 11:58 pm 
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Looking to resurrect my Tyranids and this list looks the most representative of how Tyranids should work, thanks Borka! I plan to build a hybrid drop list. This looks like a lot of fun! Just a few questions:

Loss of AA on Zoanthrops I assume this is on purpose.
Increase in tyranid swarm cost by 25pts, just wondering why.

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 Post subject: Re: Hive Fleet Gorgon netEA 0.5
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 9:25 pm 
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atension wrote:
Looking to resurrect my Tyranids and this list looks the most representative of how Tyranids should work, thanks Borka! I plan to build a hybrid drop list. This looks like a lot of fun!

Glad to hear that! :)

atension wrote:
Just a few questions:

Loss of AA on Zoanthrops I assume this is on purpose.
Increase in tyranid swarm cost by 25pts, just wondering why.


A) indeed intentional. It has changed to much in the fluff. I think it and/or the malanthrope are the prime candidates if we feel later on that we need to bring ground based AA back though.

B) Not intented copy-paste error. Should be 200 as in onachus.


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 Post subject: Re: Hive Fleet Gorgon netEA 0.5
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 2:14 am 
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Some suggestions:

Gargoyles to (1)brood - They don't warrent (2) brood like raveners

Reduce cost on Sky Swarm to 175 pts with an upgrade of two Crones/Harpies for 75 pts. Being an independant swarm they dont get any of the initative bonuses that come with synapse. A unit of 3 would be usless, one death and it would never recover.

Reduce the cost of the tyranocytes to 25 pts and the spaceship to 150 pts. Its a significant investment to opt for a drop force, 400 points for tyranocytes plus the spacecraft. With strategy rating of 1 the ship will get bumped out by every other race.

Really like the terror swarm, thats what drew me to this list. Also I think the the mutable Heirophant is an excellent idea! The stats say 0-2 for the scything talons, are they replaced when you add other weapons? Also are you required to buy two other weapons? The wording is a little ambiguous.

In the heirodule swarm it says "barbed och scythed"

The bio-artillary formation is a little tough. I mean i want to use biovors for their indirect fire cspabilities to prep formations for assault but like you said you cant really give them synapse. Feel they are a glass formation though. Was considering putting 4 in a core swarm and having that do the prep fire but it really is lacking in punch.

Id like to see a little more ranged shooting options so you arent as pigeon holed to an assault force. No suggestion on how though yet.

Any chance we could have this up on Army Forge?

Three types of carnifex might not be necessary, going to try them though.

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 Post subject: Re: Hive Fleet Gorgon netEA 0.5
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:28 pm 
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Thanks for your feedback. Sorry for the slow answer all available hobby time last two weeks have been going to preparing for a campaign day I'm hosting (nids vs imperials :) ).

atension wrote:
Some suggestions:

Gargoyles to (1)brood - They don't warrent (2) brood like raveners

Agreed.

atension wrote:
Reduce cost on Sky Swarm to 175 pts with an upgrade of two Crones/Harpies for 75 pts. Being an independant swarm they dont get any of the initative bonuses that come with synapse. A unit of 3 would be usless, one death and it would never recover.

I compared them to a formation of exocrines in the onachus list. They cost 175 points for three without synapse. The harpy has less range and lesser save, but does have skimmer, better total firepower and is way more mobile. i think they are about equal from a power persepctive.
I put them at a higer price because I think the mobility and skimmer/pop up possibility should come at a price.
However if testing shows them to be a waste, then I'm all for lowering to 175pts. Just want to be cautious with new stuff. It’s always easier to lower a price than increase it.

atension wrote:
Reduce the cost of the tyranocytes to 25 pts and the spaceship to 150 pts. Its a significant investment to opt for a drop force, 400 points for tyranocytes plus the spacecraft. With strategy rating of 1 the ship will get bumped out by every other race.

I based the price on the strike cruiser. Didn't think about taking the strategy rating into consideration. I agree that being strat 1 should be reflected in the price. Will lower the cost to 175 as a first step. Possibly to 150 later on.
50 pts seem to be what a lof lists pay for the drop pods. I'd rather increase the possible size for formations being dropped, than lowering the cost.

atension wrote:
Really like the terror swarm, thats what drew me to this list. Also I think the the mutable Heirophant is an excellent idea! The stats say 0-2 for the scything talons, are they replaced when you add other weapons? Also are you required to buy two other weapons? The wording is a little ambiguous.

I put 0-2 because you can replace them with the gigantic talons (and only by them).
You have to take two shooting weapons in addition. I wanted to reflect the forgeworld modern hierophant.

atension wrote:
In the heirodule swarm it says "barbed och scythed"

That would be swedish for "and" :D
will amend that for all you english speakers ;D

atension wrote:
The bio-artillary formation is a little tough. I mean i want to use biovors for their indirect fire cspabilities to prep formations for assault but like you said you cant really give them synapse. Feel they are a glass formation though. Was considering putting 4 in a core swarm and having that do the prep fire but it really is lacking in punch.

They're the same as in the onachus list. I have also found them to be rather situational in that list. They tend to die as soon as the enemy sneezes or even looks at them. My suggestion after thinking on the for a bit would be to give them a tyranid warrior stand.

atension wrote:
Id like to see a little more ranged shooting options so you arent as pigeon holed to an assault force. No suggestion on how though yet.

I think the list have more options than onachus as is, but perhaps not more shooting specific formations. Feel like that's ok though. Please let me know if you have any suggestions though.

atension wrote:
Any chance we could have this up on Army Forge?

Yeah I will do a file.

atension wrote:
Three types of carnifex might not be necessary, going to try them though.

No perhaps you're right. A scythed (onachus version) and a barbed might be enough. This is not ment as a tank list. Such a list would better warrant several versions. I went with three versions since that's what Leviathan has.


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 Post subject: Re: Hive Fleet Gorgon netEA 0.5
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:38 am 
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Gorgon Swarm in the works of being built and painted. Managed to locate the bits and stuff I wanted to make everything.

Borka, Any luck with the Update on the list amendments (typo fixes and tyranid rule section). Also Keen to start playing with Army forge to make it easier to generate list ideas. Plan to have the army up and ready to run by the end of the month.

For the Symbiote upgrade could it be included as a option for the Brute and Terror swarms as well?

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 Post subject: Re: Hive Fleet Gorgon netEA 0.5
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:24 am 
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Also I really like the Idea of using zoanthroaps in the bioartillery swarm to give it a synapse so the formation can still claim objectives.

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 Post subject: Re: Hive Fleet Gorgon netEA 0.5
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:58 pm 
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Great to hear! I’m self working on some fliers and terror swarm. I’m on family holiday so haven’t been doing much hobby the last two weeks. I will get Home on sunday so hope to update the list by next week.


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 Post subject: Re: Hive Fleet Gorgon netEA 0.6
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:15 am 
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Added an updated list (verison 0.6) per previous discussion and with some additions to the first post.


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 Post subject: Re: Hive Fleet Gorgon netEA 0.6
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:47 am 
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Looking good.

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 Post subject: Re: Hive Fleet Gorgon netEA 0.6
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:12 am 
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Looks great!

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