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[OLD] Tyranid Army List v10

 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:51 pm 
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Sorry. My schedule has been anti-gaming as of late. :( Not to mention it has been a long time since I even touched Vassal. Realistically I don't see me playing any games between now and January 1st. Probably for the best, however. It gives me time to put into the fiction side of the project.

But don't think I am ignoring you!

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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:03 pm 
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Sorry to threadjack Dave, but Mr. Mephiston I can give you a vassal match up in the near future if you require it :)


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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:12 pm 
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I'm open to offers lol...will be good to get some games in. PM me and lets see if we can make the timings work :)


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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:06 pm 
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today we played two games using this rules, one against orks and the other against necrons. here are our first opinions:

-list creation seems less complicated than in 9.1.2, real improve here
-harridan seems powerful, but not overpowered, i´ll test more about it
-the 1+ regroup seems a bit overpowered, with an agressive tactic the oponent has problems maintaining activations while nids just press more and more

just my 2 cents


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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:20 pm 
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What were the game results and what were the army lists?

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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:50 pm 
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dominatrix -350 (not bad... not as good as harridan with swarm)
swarm (warriors, termagants) -200
harridan -150
swarm (warriors, termagants) -200
harridan -150
big swarm (hyve tyrants, hormagants, 4 carnifex) -575 (tyrants not worth it, easy to snipe)
huge swarm (warriors, termagaunts, hormagaunts) - 550 (worked really well)
big biovore - 275
hierodule - 350
lyctors (4) - 200

not the most competitive list probably, but worked well

necrons won turn 3 (3-1)

warbarque (supreme comander) -350
pylon -200
pylon -200
pylon -200
warrior phalanx (2 inmortal) - 305
warrior phalanx (2 inmortal) - 305
warrior phalanx (2 inmotal, pariah) - 365
monolith phalanx (3 monolith) - 275
monolith maniple (1 monolith, 2 obelisk) - 200
monolith maniple (1 monolith, 2 obelisk) - 200
monolith maniple (1 monolith, 2 obelisk) - 200
monolith maniple (1 monolith, 2 obelisk) - 200

orks lose turn 3 (2-0)

not sure about the list as i wasnt playing but used big guns (big), infantry (huge), gargant, lots of buggys and wagons and a landa with a big inside. also used some mechanics


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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:02 pm 
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should you need us testing something specific just ask, we would be glad to help


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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:28 pm 
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I haven't played much, so this is not a reply to be regarded as an expert's one, but in overall I have to say that I liked more the 9.2.1 than I liked the 10v. Here below my reasons:

1) The brood "recombination" process in 9.2.1 was great; I really liked the ide of a "dynamic tyranid wave" commanded by the hive mind, instead of clusters that can regroup into others. Indeed, that's how it has ever worked in WH40k: no matter under which tyranid creature dominion they fall, lesser creatures are linked to the hive mind. I feel this as a big loss.

2) The dominatrix has lost point cost, but has lost half his wounds... a real icon of the tyranid might was something I liked a lot; not an alien queen rounded in a screen of lessers, but as a cluster of claws able to charge on his own the enemy and slaughter. Now, with the 60cm energy pulse, is more similar to a distant turret.

3) Indeed, in overall, I've seen quite an increase of shooting possibilities, which I don't feel like tyranid flavoury. The bugs are close quarters doom for me (as it is a main target, so fire will concentrate and now it can't screen below re-swarming trygons).

4) I dind't feel complicated the way of building an army on 9.2.1; I felt fun, cause it was "a bit more on it".

5) I really liked the idea about the special BTS rule. taking down anything except a real large amount of synapse creatures won't even bother a swarm, as they'll be pushed by the existent synapse creatures. There was a lot of flavour into it, not only for the tyranid, that would have o balance their loses, but to the enemy, who would have a clear mission, instead of a clear target. Now, there's the real wish and risk to have a "hiding in cover" command/shooting unit, making good indirect fire, with the highest cost in the army.

6) There's something I've always missed in both: the tyranids had always been known for letting meiotic spores fall over the enemy, releasing bugs in the middle of the enemy. None of this was ever reflected, but at least in the 9.2.1 there was the vituperator to cover for the fact, even if not the same.

7) I liked the idea of a lower initiative, but with a big bonus to charge and recovery. It enforces the strategy of a real swarm: hit hard, regenerate and hit hard again.

Something I liked:

a) I liked the idea of the regeneration, which is a tyranid classic. However, it has to be very carefully balanced with the number of wounds the unit has: to little and it does nothing, to many and it's overwhelming. To tell the truth, I feel it's fine for the bio-titans, and to little wounds for the dominatrix to benefit from it.


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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:45 pm 
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also we found that the spawning rule used to work better, now it seems too necronish, i used to like the idea that needed swarms were sent in spores, so you could spawn whatever creature you needed provided you had enough spawn points

in general i feel that the list goes in the right direction, but still needs more testing


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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:42 pm 
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Thanks to Dave and other folks for coming up with new list. Played first game with V10 last week. Both myself and another Nid player liked the feel of the list and the greater range of army setups it seems you can make compared to 9.2.1. Very good that the ratio of gaunts isn't so restrictive on both army build and model collections. Will have some more feedback when we've played some more games.

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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 7:51 pm 
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we played another game today, nyds against necrons... the list seems competitive, even against an army with so many skimmers.
what i havent liked is the fact that they ended playing an attack and retreat tactic, they seemed eldars not nyds... but couldnt play more like they should because they weren´t capable of winning frontal assaults nor the attrition war


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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:44 pm 
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Can you expand on the second part a little more? There's instance in the fluff where nids probe for weaknesses in a defense before committing to a full attack.

In any case, they need overwhelming numbers to win frontal assaults as no armor saves on the little guys will do you in when rolling the assault resolution. Lots of support helps with this, as well as prepping the target.

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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:48 pm 
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Just glancing over the newer rules from the old PDF I had (thanks again to those who pointed me here) I can see some pretty sizeable changes. I'll need to digest them all to see whats been modified heavily. Once school is over in 2 weeks I can pour over this list with a fine-toothed comb.


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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 1:19 am 
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I can expand on the facts asdepicas was speaking about, cause I was the other side of the table. First of all, I'll put the list in:

Independent groups (950)
- Harridan 150
- Harridan 150
- Harridan 150
- Harridan 150
- Bio – titan hierodule 350
Synapse groups (2050)
- 1 x Nexus swarm 530
o 1 x Dominatrix 350
o 1 x hormagaunts 20
o 2 x termagaunts 40
o 2 x trygon 120
- 4 x Tyranid swarm 1520 (380 each)
o 2 x Tyranid warrior 200
o 2 x hormagaunts 0
o 4 x termagaunts 0
o 3 x trygon 180

The idea was to have good sturdy cores with which to keep objectives, and some smaller units to gain mobility in the army, and mainly checking how was it having trygon war engines in the synapse units: way better than having carnifexes, as their firefight, extra wounds (which means extra BMs that can be absorbed, higher numbers in assault. 10cm extension to coherency...) and extra movement, all for just +10 points more, are unvaluable (luckily, cause they weren't overwhelming at all).

Needless to note this was an army expected to work in general; not specifically against necrons.

The game started so oddly, with the dominatrix falling even before I could act (two pylons holding activation with lucky shots and displayed so they couldn't see the trygons protecting her). Then necron pressure started with monolith crossfire, while The first activation of the tyranids were forcing assaults against monoliths (holding activation), just to get rid of most of the crossfire and get out of the killing zone.

Combat comparisson:
- Tyranids charge hopefully with 6 termagaunts + 3 trygons + and two tyranid warriors, all fighting at +5 firefight (skimmers), no special rules as trygon macroweapons are at close combat (wouldn't be a difference, cause monoliths have living metal, although pylons don't). Monolith units play back with 5 firefight 5+ attacks, plus around 4-7 more in support from close by units (they choose were they are and literally surround you).

You get 14 shots, for 4'6 saves, 1'6 per unit:
- Pylons save: 0'7 casualties for each, so let's say you kill one out of two.
- Monolith saves: 0'4 casualties. Probably survives.

They get 9-12 shots for 3-4 impacts:
- 3-4 casualties to termagaunts: you have better numbers after all, so +2 to resolution. -1 to win or stalemate and you have 50% chance to win or loose combat. If you win, they're broken but fearless, stay around, you move 5cm, they display anywhere within 30cm, portal necron units and your unit might die later if the necron wishes (no need). If they win, you move 40cm away and have saved a unit, that however is broken (but acted already).
- Casualties to trygons: if any enters, now you have BMs, and you have a problem, cause any fresh unit firefighting you will have a +2 to resolution (no BMs and less BMs). Moreover, it could be a critical.

The chances to loose are -3 if he managed to put a BM on you beforehand (won't happen to the first ones getting out, but will happen to the 2nds.

You break, run like hell, regroup, hopefully recharge gaunts back (+2d3 if you manage to stay 30cm away, which is your 4 back).

So tactic is run like hell, cause you can't win and most probably they have big problems catching you. Necrons will reposition broken monoliths, which is a problem cause they have a hard time catching you IF THEY DON'T TELEPORT.

On the good side:
- Harridans are invaluable as they give you the control of the table you need most of the time, but you have to have them hiding and running, cause they can kill nothing by themselves and are quite easily killed.
- Bio-titans are great. They're sturdy, they have BP weapons (the 0-1xBP3 is a good option to make your BP reach 60cm... take it).
- Dominatrix: to easy to kill for the expensive it is, moreover knowing it's your supreme commander.

But it's pitiful to see the tyranids running like cowards when you are used to see them as a devourer, even of metal.

Tyranids have a serious problem with skimmers v10, as their "main power" is close combat, and you can't use it at all. The other real problem is the gaunt's expendability in assault, but that's something worth of a separate topic I'll post, cause it happens both in v10 and leviathan.

Eldars will most probably be quite the same problem in a different way: their firefight is better, they'll shoot at you before they're there (BMs for +1 to +2 resolution) they have overwhelming firefight values and you can't reach them in close combat (so you're better running and covering/cowering again).

Tau's are over reach, as they're shooting you macroweapons 2+ or 3+ from the other edge of the table and still have plenty of skimmers.

Imperial guard will also be on the other side of the table shooting at you and putting BMs for the time you reach to arms reach, and their firefight is better if they come before you can. Probably you can win once you're there, but I have to check how bad is it before you reach.

Marines will be wherever they want, more or less and your AAs suck...

It doesn't look a very powerful army really; there are several corrections to do.

To tell the truth I keep thinking that the best way to play the nid is to have a very-very expensive tunneler swarm which can take a points on turn 3, so you don't risk that much and have a bit more of the very scarce table control tyranids have (all is in independent indeed): the rest of the army seems to work better running, so it doesn't mind that much to leave things out of the table (but seems a boring way to play...).


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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 9:57 am 
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where he says pylons he means obelisks


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