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[OLD] Tyranid Army List v10

 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 12:40 pm 
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Right.


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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 1:29 pm 
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If using the GTS then every army has its strong and weak points.
Nids will always suck at:
- Getting Blitzkrieg as the army is slow and can be blocked off from accessing the blitz. Tunnelers can of course get there on the 3rd turn w/ no obstruction but then must still fight off the blitz guardians. Not as easy as landing a thunderhawk nearby.
- Getting Break Their Spirit as once again slow speed and have a hard time forcing assaults
- Preventing Break Their Spirit as they have poor AA and SR and it's easy to dictate where the fighting happens against nids
But they are or should be pretty good at:
- Defend the Flag due to swarming and general toughness and ability to recover
- Take and Hold since the middle of the table and just beyond is about their limit of movement in a 3 turn game and once they are on something they're hard to budge
- Preventing Take and Hold, Blitzkrieg and Defend the Flag since once again they're hard to get rid of

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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 1:39 pm 
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Having a hard time forcing assaults and being primarily CC-based is a recipie for uselessness really.

They aren't that slow though, with 20cm move and little incentive to sustain fire or even advance. All formations will be at mid-table if they want after turn one (wether they survive there is another question), with 15 cm deployment + 2x20cm move. 5cm away from the centerline, or 15cm over it if they march. I've had Carnifexes clearing and holding the blitz in turn 3.

But they're not good at moving to different parts of the battlefield as needed.


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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 1:58 pm 
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thats what harridans are there for


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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 5:51 pm 
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And Gargoyles and Harpys.

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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 6:58 pm 
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There are no harpies in v10, BlackLegion (see the topic); and they aren't synapse, so anywhere where you lose a separate units synapses is lost (you can't close the flank if you havent most of your nids all together, so forget about controlling distant points.

I understand Ulrik's comment on table control: you haven't.

Indeed this comment:
Quote:
thats what harridans are there for


Seems to point to the current reality: lonely harridans (there's no point on putting gargoyles with him so it breaks easier, and it's not synapse, so it rallies at -2...) are almost autoinclude in a number 2-4 per 3000 pont army, and just to take objectives (and not with nids as it should be): if you risk them even a bit, you lose them. I've already seen them fall just to try being a bit more tyranid and less coward. This doesn't feel right and then what would happen if they rise the price as originally commented? Oh, no table control again! (cause more expensive they aren't interesting anymore as they can win nothing alone, and using them to put BMs risks them to enemy fire).

Gargoyles that get out don't come back (brood-2 and no save), and they can't be back with harridans anyway. Harridans can be also pinpointed when needed, as they're WE and gargoyles are INF. Even with harpies they can be pinpointed, as they're WE. Even in leviathan when you lose the harridan all the unit is quite fluffy (as you usually won't put gargoyles in other units, due to their cost, so they won't get back).

Currently leviathan_v3 is way more balanced in this also: you have to put the gargoyles with the harridans, but at least you can reswarm them even if slowly and have some AA fire, even if it will once the aeroplane has done whatever he wants with you (cause your range is so short).

Does it feel nid?


Last edited by etriustremere on Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:09 pm 
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I have to agree that I don't like the emphasis that v10 puts on large numbers of lone harridans. It's not fluffy.

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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 11:24 pm 
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Skimmers are frustrating for small formations of CC specialists for sure, but there aren't many powerful all-skimmer formations, are there? So nids should be capable of defeating them in numbers. And CC is cheaper than FF.

In general I wouldn't be too concerned about nids not being able to crush the enemy in an initial assault. They don't even have to win it. Attacking in waves to whittle down numbers seems absolutely fine to me: attack, kill some units but lose, rally, attack again. If the enemy can destroy you in time, they win. If not, they lose.

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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:32 am 
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Kyrt wrote:
Skimmers are frustrating for small formations of CC specialists for sure, but there aren't many powerful all-skimmer formations, are there? So nids should be capable of defeating them in numbers. And CC is cheaper than FF.


I've had problems with big formations with skimmer transports too (aspect warriors), as they can hide behind the skimmers, negating CC. Anybody got any tricks for handling that?


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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:54 am 
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Hormagaunts and Raveners are good for getting around that, as Infiltrators can ignore the skimmers and jump straight on the infantry.

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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 3:27 am 
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Quote:
I have to agree that I don't like the emphasis that v10 puts on large numbers of lone harridans. It's not fluffy.


I meant that when in leviathan v3 you lose the harridan prime from the independent formation, the remaining formation is quite a ploff, even if you have another harridan (and that unit would be already 400 points...). Sorry about my english; sometimes it can get messy. I completely agree a single harridan flying around is quite a good thing, even if not very powerful by itself (with gargoyles it's way worst.

Quote:
Skimmers are frustrating for small formations of CC specialists for sure, but there aren't many powerful all-skimmer formations, are there? So nids should be capable of defeating them in numbers. And CC is cheaper than FF.


There are at least one type of units: fearless skimmer units of living metal, with good firefight, teleport and capability to deploy necron warriors after your activation, even if broken...

And with most of the skimmers the problem is not that you can't beat them if you charge (not easy, but you could). The problem is they hit you in a firefight, from further, before you can even guess: and then you can't win, cause if you've put close combat units, you can shot back, and if you haven't, they still shoot better.

Quote:
Hormagaunts and Raveners are good for getting around that, as Infiltrators can ignore the skimmers and jump straight on the infantry.


There's something even better: Trygons. They firefight, they are fearless, they move 25cm, they extend part of your formation coherency to 10cm, they are just 10 points more than a carnifex and they can push up to two units to engage others in the back, as per the war engine rule (and you give the infantry -1 to be hit in open, if touching them). It's one of the best options I've seen for the v10 units.


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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:32 pm 
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Hy, perhaps you can try (think about a limmit to upgrades in the tyranid Swarm (like ork odd boys ) to reduce Upgrade (unlimmited ) per swarm and for more Tyranid Swarms.
And reduce the independent swarm size to small or medium for AV , WE , and to medium for Infantry.To reduce the Harridan problem and bring more Tyranid swarms to play.

thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:25 pm 
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hy,i have made some test games with the new army list .
I have some ideas for the tyranid V.10 Armylist perhaps you can add some of the rules .

Ideas for Tyranid Tyranid V.10 Armylist

Change tyranid Warrior stats to :
Deathspitters (15cm)
Slashing Claws Contact EA (+1)
CC3+
CC3+ To make adifferens to Genestealers . The genestealers are much better in CC than the Warriors (look Warhammer 40k)
Deathspitters and Slashing Claws EA+1 to represent ther Multible Weapon and Equitment Options (And Perhaps the Epic Minitures)

Add Haruspex and Malefactor to Independent Swarms
(To form a Tyranid Storm Formations ,and to transport Genestealers)

Add Scout Ability to Gargyles
Gargyles mission are to scout ahead the Tyranid army and Formations.

Add A Independent Gargyles Swarm (Six) to independent Swarms (Small )
Gargyles mission are to Harras and Terror the Enemy Troops

Add Transport Six To Harridan
The Harridan needs transport six to bring the gargoyles save to there destination .

Add Spore Pods to Harridan 3-4 BP 15cm Range
Makes the Harridan to the Fighter Bomber of the tyranid Army ,he Harridan is very Big Skimmer he needs some Weapons .(See also the net epic rules or Warhammer 40 epic rules )

Add Synapse to Harridan
Gives the Harridan the option to spawn new Gargoyles to make an good harridan /gargyle Swarm )

Future Options

Add Tyranid Ships

Add Tyranid Spore Rain

Add Planetfall to Harridan

perhaps the army champion can use some of this ideas.

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:15 pm 
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Tibernius wrote:
hy,i have made some test games with the new army list .
I have some ideas for the tyranid V.10 Armylist perhaps you can add some of the rules .

the idea is not to add more rules to the army but test the ones that are already in

Quote:
d V.10 Armylist

Change tyranid Warrior stats to :
Deathspitters (15cm)
Slashing Claws Contact EA (+1)
CC3+
CC3+ To make adifferens to Genestealers . The genestealers are much better in CC than the Warriors (look Warhammer 40k)
Deathspitters and Slashing Claws EA+1 to represent ther Multible Weapon and Equitment Options (And Perhaps the Epic Minitures)

same as before, the stats and rules have already been decided in other posts... the idea now is to test what is working well and what not
Quote:


Add Scout Ability to Gargyles
Gargyles mission are to scout ahead the Tyranid army and Formations.


i like this idea, this way gargoyles would be something more than aircraft chasers
Quote:
Add A Independent Gargyles Swarm (Six) to independent Swarms (Small )
Gargyles mission are to Harras and Terror the Enemy Troops

gargoyles are brood nyds, always need a synaptic unit that controls them, so i dont see them as independent

Quote:

Add Spore Pods to Harridan 3-4 BP 15cm Range
Makes the Harridan to the Fighter Bomber of the tyranid Army ,he Harridan is very Big Skimmer he needs some Weapons .(See also the net epic rules or Warhammer 40 epic rules )


harridan does not need more weapons and its not an aircraft



Quote:
Future Options

Add Tyranid Ships

Add Tyranid Spore Rain

Add Planetfall to Harridan

perhaps the army champion can use some of this ideas.

Thanks


i would recommend to try and play couple of games with v10 and search for things that do not work properly rather than try and redo the whole list, i see some interesting ideas, but think that a lot has been discussed and done till this point and there is no intention in going back to those discussions. we should be testing what has already been "approved" and try to fix the things that are not working by doing minor changes.


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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Army List v10
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:50 am 
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Hy, Thanks for your answear . I have taken a look on the rules again and have some things .

Why have the malefactor the option to transport genestealer ? There is no way to do this.

The Indipendent haridan swarm makes so confusion with the rules .
First the gargyles needs a synaps unit the harridan is no synapse unit.
second if the harridan is killed the Gargyles can act as an idependent unit ,they are not independent.
To correct this the harridan can made to an synapse unit or the Gargyles can made an independent unit (All tyranid tanks were made to Indipendent unit to in the old rules they were no independent units) (in the net epic rules and in the warthammer epic 40k rules the harridan are an Synapse unit.)

The gargyles are not a usefull unit to the harridan or to a swarm.8I think they will not taken often.
perhaps scout and ignore cover (They use Flamme thrower )can be added to make them to a usfull unit .

thanks


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