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Genestealer Cult List v1.0

 Post subject: Re: Genestealer Cult List v1.0
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:48 pm 
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Because there isn't anywhere else to post it! It's being developed for the Epic Hive supplement.

Purple guard is just meh to me. Sure we can just bung in a load more guard stuff but we just lose the flavour of the list. Better to find more interesting twists on the concept.

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 Post subject: Re: Genestealer Cult List v1.0
PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 6:11 am 
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I think that a big mistake in making new lists is too think you have to invent new units with new stats and lots of special rules.

Why not work with whats already available (and playtested)? A mix of IG units and Tyranids with a minimal amount of special rules/stats/characters must be both faster and easier to develeop?

Uvenlord, ever thought about doing your own version for comparing purpouses?

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 Post subject: Re: Genestealer Cult List v1.0
PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 11:42 am 
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I've invented a total of one unit for this list, and no special rules...

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 Post subject: Re: Genestealer Cult List v1.0
PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 6:40 pm 
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Hmmm, my bad then. I thought the Hybrids, Brood Brothers, Patriarch, Ark, looted super heavy, PDF fighter and PDF Bomber where invented ofr this list. Must have missed they where in other lists.

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 Post subject: Re: Genestealer Cult List v1.0
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:02 am 
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mordoten wrote:
Hmmm, my bad then. I thought the Hybrids, Brood Brothers, Patriarch, Ark, looted super heavy, PDF fighter and PDF Bomber where invented ofr this list. Must have missed they where in other lists.


Sarcasm not needed, thanks. All of those units except the superheavy have appeared in either other epic lists or 40k genestealer cult lists.

Or did you want to make a cult list without any cult units? Feel free to play guard with some genestealers, but that's not a genestealer cult army.

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 Post subject: Re: Genestealer Cult List v1.0
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:05 pm 
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None sarcasm intended. We are disscussing a list for E:A, not 40K. How about not being defensive and sensitive like a teenage emo girl on her period?

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 Post subject: Re: Genestealer Cult List v1.0
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 3:23 pm 
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Very constructive.

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 Post subject: Re: Genestealer Cult List v1.0
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:14 pm 
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I have played the older version of this list several times and I have enjoyed it, but I have some concerns/suggestions:

- Scavenged superheavies: A successful cult would have access to workshops, STCs, stolen vehicles and at least some of the planets' armories. This would allow them to have a limited number of superheavies, they wouldn't have to drag a knocked-out Baneblade back to a chop-shop and make Ork like changes to it. The scavenged superheavy seems more at home in an Ork army list based on it's stats and layout. I would just allow limited numbers of normal I.G. superheavies.

- Cult bike formations: Some have suggested that bikes be added to the list. I think of bikes being more at home with goodguy/badguy marines and the Orks, not so much with a hive city cult.

- Genestealer Ark: This comes from a "semi-official playtest" 3rd edition 40K army list, written by a G.W. employee. This same list allowed the cult to field space marine Landraider and Predator tanks..."The Chimera chassis is commonly used" for the Ark, which means that instead of being a 3DC WE, it is an AV with 4+ RA against ranged weaponry and FF attacks due to it's shields and a normal 5+ save against CC attacks.

- Lictors: IIRC the 0-1 Lictor formation was originally 4 strong, not 3. I would suggest keeping it at 4, they were by no means overpowered in the games that I played. They are kind of fragile to begin with and strategy 2+ doesn't help. This is not a complaint btw, I'm just pointing out that they have a few strikes against them and reducing their numbers will hurt their effectiveness.

- PDF Fighters: Ah, the fighters of Mossinian fame - I realize that they are supposed to suck and that strangely enough is why I like them. I am at peace with their AP6+/AA6+, but I would change their AT6+ shot. I have played them with AT5+ and having a 1 in 3 chance of hitting per plane (which averages 1 hit per flight) is fine, but paying 150 points for a 5 in 6 chance of laying a blast marker on an AV just isn't worth it. The price wouldn't have to change either, Tzeentch Doomwings are much better and they cost 150 points.

- Hybrid weapons: In the 2nd edition Tyranid codex (and 1st edition Space Hulk), Hybrids had access to a wide array of special and heavy weapons. The heavy bolters that they currently have could be changed to "mixed heavy weapons" with AP5+/AT5+(AT6+?) @ 30cm. Sure the title isn't sexy, but it would more accurately represent their equipment.

- I like the Teleport upgrade, another option that would be very fluffy could be a Tunneller upgrade. It could be made available to only Genestealer and Hybrid formations as they are adept at stealth. In the fluff, the cult centers itself in cities/hive cities. Tunneller would represent those formations using the sewers and access tunnels (which is where the cult usually resides) to launch surprise attacks. To avoid abuse of the upgrade, a limit of 0-4 for example, could be placed on the upgrade.

- Support weapons: The 40K 2nd edition Tyranid codex allowed support weapons to be used. I would like to see Rapiers, Thudd guns, Tarantulas and Mole mortars (optional - mortars too high tech for cult?) added to the cult army list as upgrades. A player could give some shooty upgrades to a Brood Brother formation and deploy it in a position to support advancing CC formations. Note: I would also suggest that Hellhound tanks be added to the list as upgrades, I have played with them in the list and they added some much needed shooting, speed and FF to their parent formations.

- Basic artillery option: The cult could use more indirect capability. As a bridge between Basilisks and support weapons, I'd include heavy mortars from the Krieg army list. They are simple weapons that the cult could make in their workshops or steal from mothballed PDF storage. They would be a formation of 4 with limited upgrades such as Brood Brothers, Brood Brother fire support, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Genestealer Cult List v1.0
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:49 am 
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uberChris wrote:
I have played the older version of this list several times and I have enjoyed it, but I have some concerns/suggestions:

- Scavenged superheavies: A successful cult would have access to workshops, STCs, stolen vehicles and at least some of the planets' armories. This would allow them to have a limited number of superheavies, they wouldn't have to drag a knocked-out Baneblade back to a chop-shop and make Ork like changes to it. The scavenged superheavy seems more at home in an Ork army list based on it's stats and layout. I would just allow limited numbers of normal I.G. superheavies.

- Cult bike formations: Some have suggested that bikes be added to the list. I think of bikes being more at home with goodguy/badguy marines and the Orks, not so much with a hive city cult.

- Genestealer Ark: This comes from a "semi-official playtest" 3rd edition 40K army list, written by a G.W. employee. This same list allowed the cult to field space marine Landraider and Predator tanks..."The Chimera chassis is commonly used" for the Ark, which means that instead of being a 3DC WE, it is an AV with 4+ RA against ranged weaponry and FF attacks due to it's shields and a normal 5+ save against CC attacks.

- Lictors: IIRC the 0-1 Lictor formation was originally 4 strong, not 3. I would suggest keeping it at 4, they were by no means overpowered in the games that I played. They are kind of fragile to begin with and strategy 2+ doesn't help. This is not a complaint btw, I'm just pointing out that they have a few strikes against them and reducing their numbers will hurt their effectiveness.

- PDF Fighters: Ah, the fighters of Mossinian fame - I realize that they are supposed to suck and that strangely enough is why I like them. I am at peace with their AP6+/AA6+, but I would change their AT6+ shot. I have played them with AT5+ and having a 1 in 3 chance of hitting per plane (which averages 1 hit per flight) is fine, but paying 150 points for a 5 in 6 chance of laying a blast marker on an AV just isn't worth it. The price wouldn't have to change either, Tzeentch Doomwings are much better and they cost 150 points.

- Hybrid weapons: In the 2nd edition Tyranid codex (and 1st edition Space Hulk), Hybrids had access to a wide array of special and heavy weapons. The heavy bolters that they currently have could be changed to "mixed heavy weapons" with AP5+/AT5+(AT6+?) @ 30cm. Sure the title isn't sexy, but it would more accurately represent their equipment.

- I like the Teleport upgrade, another option that would be very fluffy could be a Tunneller upgrade. It could be made available to only Genestealer and Hybrid formations as they are adept at stealth. In the fluff, the cult centers itself in cities/hive cities. Tunneller would represent those formations using the sewers and access tunnels (which is where the cult usually resides) to launch surprise attacks. To avoid abuse of the upgrade, a limit of 0-4 for example, could be placed on the upgrade.

- Support weapons: The 40K 2nd edition Tyranid codex allowed support weapons to be used. I would like to see Rapiers, Thudd guns, Tarantulas and Mole mortars (optional - mortars too high tech for cult?) added to the cult army list as upgrades. A player could give some shooty upgrades to a Brood Brother formation and deploy it in a position to support advancing CC formations. Note: I would also suggest that Hellhound tanks be added to the list as upgrades, I have played with them in the list and they added some much needed shooting, speed and FF to their parent formations.

- Basic artillery option: The cult could use more indirect capability. As a bridge between Basilisks and support weapons, I'd include heavy mortars from the Krieg army list. They are simple weapons that the cult could make in their workshops or steal from mothballed PDF storage. They would be a formation of 4 with limited upgrades such as Brood Brothers, Brood Brother fire support, etc.

+1 on everything above, except:
Do we really need the Ark if it were to be a Chimera?
Not a fan of "mixed heavy weapons" but the stats (assaultcannon) you write down sounds good, a lot better then heavy bolters.
To me the teleport option includes digging and/or sneaking. If we go tunneling we should take away the teleport option....

/uven


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 Post subject: Re: Genestealer Cult List v1.0
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:54 pm 
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Hi uvenlord,

Yeah, the "mixed heavy weapons" for the Hybrids doesn't sound interesting. I guess "specialist weapons" or something like that would sound better.

I agree that it should be Teleport OR Tunneller upgrades for the Genestealers and Hybrids. Tunneller is more fluffy and while it isn't flexible like Teleport, a formation is able to deploy without the risk of receiving blast markers. Lictors should retain Teleport as it is a built in ability.

As far as the Ark goes, I guess it could be a special Chimera upgrade to the Inner Circle formation that the Patriarch could ride in as it would provide a fair ammount of protection to such an important character. The Patriarch could become a part of the Chimera, just as a Commissar becomes a part of the Baneblade that he rides in for example - or the Patriarch could still be an independent infantry base that just uses the ARK for transport. The background that was written for the Ark stated that it was built to carry an old, less mobile Patriarch to the battlefield, so making him a part of the Chimera and it's stats might be the way to go if people want the Ark in the list. I'm not sold on the Ark personally, I've fielded the Patriarch every time that I played the list and was able to keep him safe. Like every character in every army list, there is a chance that he'll be killed, but there are plenty of ways to keep him protected and still close to the fight.

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 Post subject: Re: Genestealer Cult List v1.0
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:35 am 
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I'm not sure if Civilian vehicles need to be in the support formation section. They are already in the upgrade section, so having them in both sections seems a bit redundant even when you buy the Civilian vehicles first and then try to fill them with infantry. They could be used as a shield if taken as support and then have LR/Hydras added to them, but being LVs with a 5+ save, they would be more of a liability to the formation as a whole. I would suggest removing them from the support section of the list.

What could be added to the support list is the choice to field a single Baneblade or Shadowsword or Macharius or - heck, even a Stormhammer if one wanted to get wild. The superheavy could then take some upgrades like LR and/or infantry, etc. to increase it's effectiveness. Overall, I like the upgrades and the mob-like feel that this army list provides. You can see both the PDF influence and the hodge-podge influence of the cult.

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 Post subject: Re: Genestealer Cult List v1.0
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:17 pm 
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Hi, agreeing again :)
The mob feel (with lots of upgrades/mixed units) and infiltrate feels like a good core for this list.

/uven


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 Post subject: Re: Genestealer Cult List v1.0
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:30 pm 
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Hi,

I just read through the list and the this thread and wow. I'm already tempted to build another army. ;D

The only thing I feel missing is the highlight of army wide rules, mostly for flavor and feel, like was done in the original 40K codex (Citadel Journal?).

Examples:




Our Father Watches Us, Let None Fail Him!

While the Patriarch/Genestealer Ark, is alive, all Genestealer Cult formations gain +1 to their Rallying rolls.




They killed the Father!

If the Patriarch/Genestealer Ark, dies/is destroyed, all Genestealer Cult formations take a blast marker.




I'm currently working on a catalog of proxies for this army (will post in another thread).

What does the army feel like to play?
What are the strength to play on and what are the weaknesses to be mitigated?

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 Post subject: Re: Genestealer Cult List v1.0
PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:44 pm 
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This army will probably be fun to play with but since nothing happens with development I play with my Genestealer cult as a Stigmatus coven instead...


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 Post subject: Re: Genestealer Cult List v1.0
PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:53 am 
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Hi lads.

No new developenments on this list?
Because I am sort of starting to build an army out of it.


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