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Tyranid Lists Updates

 Post subject: Tyranid Lists Updates
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 4:21 pm 
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Hello, I’ve read the various threads and discussions on the weaknesses of the Tyranids NetEA list, however the list has gone through some changes and I haven’t seen anything recently since the August revisions. Has the list been improved or does it still face the same challenges? I know that I can use the EpicUK lists and did so with my former club, however, everyone in my new area plays NetEA and so it could be confusing for them.

Here also is a list I’ve been planning for our minigeddon event in Toronto, feedback would be appreciated:
Incompertus, 1000 POINTS
Tyranids (Tournament Pack 2016-01-21)
==================================================

TYRANID SWARM [200]
3 Termagants, 3 Hormagaunts, 2x Tyranid Warriors

TYRANID SWARM [270]
4 Termagants, Hive tyrant, 3 Hormagaunts, Carnifex

TRYGON SWARM [225]
3 Trygon

BIOVORE SWARM [150]
5 Biovore

GENESTEALER SWARM [150]
6 Genestealers


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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Lists Updates
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 5:11 pm 
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The last set of changes were from this January:
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=30811

Beyond the playtest changes there, there's nothing on the block.

"Improved" is a relative term. Often, around here, it's used interchangeably with "changed to what I think it should be. Given that, if you could say a little bit more with regards to specifics and your games with the list then this might be a bit more useful for you.

I never played with the 1k format. Going by what I do for the smaller games, I'd say 5 activations might be one too many ( shoot for 3-4 per 1k). If 5 is the norm for most 1k games I'd do at least that though. 'nids need the high activation count to stay viable in the mid and late game. You need to have enough engagements setup to weather loosing strategy.

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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Lists Updates
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 6:34 pm 
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In danger of being OT: JJMicromegas, there's no issues playing NetEA lists against EpicUK ones. Happens all the time in tourney and friendly play. After all, each of the Nid lists represent different hive fleets so you should get plenty of traction with your collection.

I can't actually recall anyone pulling Nids in a minigedon game though I am sure it has undoubtedly occurred. I'm very curious to see how you get on with them.

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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Lists Updates
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 1:41 pm 
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Thanks for the responses, I haven't actually played them yet, I am in the process of building up my force. I prefer the NetEA lists in the sense that it's easier to digest and understand but I don't see them doing that well in competitions or being used very often just based on my non-scientific review of the message boards.


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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Lists Updates
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 2:51 pm 
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I would say that's a dubious assertion. However play lists that you like and not get too caught up on where they come from. For instance I really like the Ulani and Konig lists over the Minervan list while at the same time I feel the EUK Skitarri list is silly and like the NetEA one more. Of the three I happen to mention, only 2 are even designed for tournament play.

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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Lists Updates
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 3:07 pm 
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Actually, I prefer the Minervan list over the Ulani list because it has more flexibility with support options and how I can customise the list.

I'm going to build a Tyranid list regardless, just wanted to see if the minor changes had changed the balance at all or if there are any must have units.

With the nids, my theory is that the Disrupt ability is critical in Turns 1 & 2 to give your melee troops a chance to close with the enemy in Turns 2 & 3.

I also think the Dominatrix is a really good bargain, however, it can't be used for minigeddon (the formation is 425 points). Perhaps one modification for minigeddon is the option to reduce the number of gants/gaunts for -20 points.


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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Lists Updates
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:46 pm 
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I think the list you've got is pretty good. Except the biovores. I don't think they will earn you your points or fill the role you want them to in minigeddon.

I think this list may go alright in minigeddon.

Hive Fleet Onachus TP2016 / Hive Fleet Onachus TP2016   1000

    Small Tyranid Swarm                                  350
        Hive Tyrant                                         
        5xTermagants                                        
        6xHormagaunts                                       
        Additional Tyranid Warriors                         

    Small Tyranid Swarm                                  200
        3xTermagants                                        
        3xHormagaunts                                       
        2xTyranid Warriors                                  

    Genetealer Swarm                                     150
        6xGenestealers                                      

    Genetealer Swarm                                     150
        6xGenestealers                                      

    Small Haridan Swarm                                  150
        Harridan                
                            
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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Lists Updates
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:00 pm 
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Don't think I've come across a 'nid list in minigeddon, their success might depend on whether you play with a restriction on retaining. Since you're probably going to lose strategy every turn.

It's common for lists to be adjusted for minigeddon in order to bring them below 400 points. Mostly core formations like the russ/sht/arty companies in steel legion but other formations too, e.g. single revenants for eldar. The 'nids don't lack for cheap formations so it's not a pressing need for them, but it seems an easy fix. Why not ask your opponents?

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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Lists Updates
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:42 am 
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Kyrt wrote:
It's common for lists to be adjusted for minigeddon in order to bring them below 400 points. Mostly core formations like the russ/sht/arty companies in steel legion but other formations too, e.g. single revenants for eldar. The 'nids don't lack for cheap formations so it's not a pressing need for them, but it seems an easy fix. Why not ask your opponents?


I'd be inclined towards a simple 400 point formation, Dominatrix plus four 'gaunt stands. It's a very tough unit to be able to bring in a minigeddon game, so a slight premium isn't too inappropriate.


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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Lists Updates
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 1:40 pm 
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JJMicromegas wrote:
I don't see them doing that well in competitions or being used very often just based on my non-scientific review of the message boards.


I think it comes down to the player a lot more than the list, more than people want to admit anyway (especially when you're doing poorly with a list). Practice helps, as does knowing the rules and being able to plan 2-3 activations ahead. All of that helps you take advantage of situations when your opponent slips up or has a poor run of luck.

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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Lists Updates
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 2:13 pm 
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I've had decent luck with the Nids and played them for most of 2015. I got rocked on a couple of the earlier games and by an especially effective Raven Guard drop list at Mechanicon last year. It struggles a bit against CC specialists and lists with lots of armor from my experience. The main key for me was to provide so many targets that your opponent has trouble prioritizing which to shoot at, and making so that there isn't really a right answer because there are so many immediate threats.

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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Lists Updates
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 2:22 pm 
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I played tyranids in a minigeddon tournament this spring (and won)

Swarm. 390
1 Tyrant
1 Tyranid warrior
4 termagaunt
2 hormagaunt
2 Gargoyle
2 Carnifex

Swarm. 220
2 tyranid warriors
4 Termagaunt
2 hormagaunt
1 gargoyle

Genestealer brood. 150
6 genestealers

Exocrine Brood. 225
3 Exocrine

My findings were that genestealers generally died without much effort on the opponents part. The big swarm was MVP, especially the fear of the carnifex, made opponents durect lots of FP towards them, ignoring your infantry as they could be returned. Having the FF from gargoyle wasn't bad either. Exocrines was hit and miss. But they outperformed the genestealers.
I would agree that 5 activations isn't needed. You end up with vulnerable formations, they break easily and doesn't have enough umpf in CC.


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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Lists Updates
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 2:50 pm 
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Nice list shoel!


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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Lists Updates
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 3:28 pm 
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Agreed, nice list Shoel. I can definitely see genestealers having trouble surviving without more targets. I would probably go with:

Swarm: 350
4x termagants
2x hormagaunts
Hive tyrant
Warrior
Haruspex
Carnifex

Swarm: 250
4x termagants
2x hormagaunts
3x warriors

Trygon Swarm: 225

Exocrine Swarm: 175

I love Trygons. They're ability to show up mid field on turn two is great. I also really like to have 3 synapse units because if you keep them alive, it's hard to fully clear out a formation with the gribblies coming back in force each turn.

All of that said, there's a strong case to try and squeeze a Harridan in there instead of the Trygons for that maneuverability and decent enough durability. I suppose that would come down more to a play style preference.

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 Post subject: Re: Tyranid Lists Updates
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:50 pm 
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Genestealers need to be hidden. Being the one formation you can garrison they tend to GET garrisoned. That makes them an easy target for advances and doubles, and the suffer more than most swarms that start on the baseline. If you can put them in cover and out of line of sight go for it (or start them on overwatch out of line of sight to get the cover), but I think they're better off on the baseline with everything else. They're less likely to get picked on, and they'll still be in a position to assault on turn 2 after a turn 1 march most of the time.

They're also a one-shot weapon unless you can pick on something that's going to die quick or not get too many hits on you. In either case, prep and support the assault.

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