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RULES: Nid attack questions...

 Post subject: RULES: Nid attack questions...
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 12:35 am 
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Hi Guys,

I could use some help. I have been playing games with the 5.40B list and I few of the nids confuse me.

The Haruspex
Says it has x4 scything talons (base contact) Assault weapons.

So does it get 1 or 4 or 5?

Also the carnifex has
Bio-plasma...BC...AW
Scything talons...BC...AW
x2 Monstrous Claws ....BC...AW,MAcro,Extra attacks +1

So does he have 1 base + 2 macro or 2 base plus 2 macro?

These two just don't seem to be writin as nicely as other Nids.

THX

RC


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 Post subject: RULES: Nid attack questions...
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 5:04 pm 
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Hi Xen-3,

Currently, they only get one attack for those weapons.

This entry is being rewritten.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

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 Post subject: RULES: Nid attack questions...
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 9:33 pm 
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Quote (MaksimSmelchak @ 10 2005 July,12:04)
Currently, they only get one attack for those weapons.
This entry is being rewritten.

Maksim -

Am I correct in thinking that the intent was that the Haruspex should instead read:
x4 Scything talons (base contact) Assault, ExtraAttacks(+1)

...which would give each 'spex 5 attacks in Assault, yes? :)

That's what I put on the QuickRef sheet... but I haven't heard any feedback
from you either way...

Larry

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 Post subject: RULES: Nid attack questions...
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 10:43 pm 
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Quote (FarSeerElandrieth @ 03 2005 Aug.,21:33)
Quote (MaksimSmelchak @ 10 2005 July,12:04)
Currently, they only get one attack for those weapons.
This entry is being rewritten.

Maksim -

Am I correct in thinking that the intent was that the Haruspex should instead read:
x4 Scything talons (base contact) Assault, ExtraAttacks(+1)

...which would give each 'spex 5 attacks in Assault, yes? :)

That's what I put on the QuickRef sheet... but I haven't heard any feedback
from you either way...

Larry

No, I believe the first bit is the name, while the last bit is the important bit  'extra attacks plus one' - so two attacks. The first bit is just the name of what is giving the attacks. It's confusing though - discussion on the last list decided that we would change the names to be less confusing in the next list revision.

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 Post subject: RULES: Nid attack questions...
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:41 pm 
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Hmm,

It does not seem right to have a CCTank have less attacks then the Carny.

The Carny gets 2 3+ attacks and 1 3+ macro
And they say the haruspex which is a CCTANK gets
2 4+ attacks?? That does not make sany since.
Hell after playing the Tyranid list I would take njothing but Carnys if that was the rule.
Right now 5 4+ CC attacks for the Haruspex I feel works out well for the points.

When i attack with 4 Carnys I get 5 to 6 base hits and 2 to 3 macro hits. While 4 Haruspexs get 8 to 10 base hits rigt now. they work out. the carny is abit more deadly with the macro hit. If you change the Haruspex to 2 base attacks then you get 3 to 4 base hits. Not a good trade in points.


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 Post subject: RULES: Nid attack questions...
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 12:49 am 
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Quote (xen3 @ 05 2005 Aug.,19:41)
Hmm,

It does not seem right to have a CCTank have less attacks then the Carny.

The Carny gets 2 3+ attacks and 1 3+ macro
And they say the haruspex which is a CCTANK gets
2 4+ attacks?? That does not make sany since.
Hell after playing the Tyranid list I would take njothing but Carnys if that was the rule.
Right now 5 4+ CC attacks for the Haruspex I feel works out well for the points.

When i attack with 4 Carnys I get 5 to 6 base hits and 2 to 3 macro hits. While 4 Haruspexs get 8 to 10 base hits rigt now. they work out. the carny is abit more deadly with the macro hit. If you change the Haruspex to 2 base attacks then you get 3 to 4 base hits. Not a good trade in points.

The carni currently has two attacks at 3+ (one a MW) as I understand it. None of the first two entries specify 'extra attack' so technically it doesn't have an extra attack. The entries just describe the weapons responsible for its attack.

Likewise the haruspex has two attacks at 4+ (one a MW), but it moves faster and has an acid spray and better FF. ?

I agree these entries are confusing and previous discussion has focused on resolving these difficulties for the next version of the list.

Xen3 I would consider 4+ RA vehicles which are immune to blast markers, to be very overpowered if they had more than their current number of attacks for 50 points. IMHO both types are very good value if you compare them to what other armies get for 50 points.





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 Post subject: RULES: Nid attack questions...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 5:45 pm 
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Quote (Markconz @ 05 2005 Aug.,19:49)
Quote (xen3 @ 05 2005 Aug.,19:41)
It does not seem right to have a CC Tank have less attacks then the Carny.
The Carny gets 2 3+ attacks and 1 3+ macro
And they say the haruspex which is a CCTANK gets
2 4+ attacks?? That does not make any sense.
...I would take nothing but Carnys if that was the rule.
Right now 5x 4+ CC attacks for the Haruspex I feel works out well for the points.

When i attack with 4 Carnys I get 5 to 6 base hits and 2 to 3 macro hits. While 4 Haruspexs get 8 to 10 base hits rigt now. they work out. the carny is abit more deadly with the macro hit. If you change the Haruspex to 2 base attacks then you get 3 to 4 base hits. Not a good trade in points.

The carni currently has two attacks at 3+ (one a MW) as I understand it. None of the first two entries specify 'extra attack' so technically it doesn't have an extra attack. The entries just describe the weapons responsible for its attack.

Marko -

I puzzled over your post quite a bit until I went back and re-checked the entry for the Carnifex...
+++++
Carnifex (CF)
Carnifex (CFC) Option:
Bio-plasma Ball Attack (Base Contact) Assault Weapons
Scything Talons (Base Contact) Assault Weapons
x2 Monstrous Claws (Base Contact) Assault, Macro-weapon, Extra attacks (+1)
or:
Venomfex (CFV) Option:
Bio-plasma Ball Attack (Base Contact) Assault Weapons
Scything Talons (Base Contact) Assault Weapons
x2 Venom Cannon 30cm AP5+/AT6+

++++++++
...and realized (in the light of your previous post) that the 'oops' applies to the Carnifex
entry, too - that "x2 Monstrous Claws" is more flavor-text (Right?)

I've gotta say, that's pretty poorly written. Should we infer that the the 'Venomfex' only gets to shoot its Venom Cannon once... or does it get two shots?

Quote (Markconz @ 05 2005 Aug.,19:49)
...the haruspex has two attacks at 4+ (one a MW), but it moves faster and has an acid spray and better FF.
Xen3 I would consider 4+ RA vehicles which are immune to blast markers, to be very overpowered if they had more than their current number of attacks for 50 points. IMHO both types are very good value if you compare them to what other armies get for 50 points.

A couple points -
? The Haruspex's Assault Extra-attack is not a Macro-weapon.
? The Leman Russ tank (at 65pts) has the same speed, same RA 4+ save and is a viable
? threat at a range of 75cm.

After fielding the Nids a couple times, I'm beginning to think that the benefit of the
Unstoppable special rule (ignoring BMs) is pretty-much balanced out by the
Going to Ground special rule (needing to keep Synapse coverage for Broods).

But I'm a mere piker with only two games with the Nids under my belt and am prolly
missing something...?? ???? ????

Larry

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 Post subject: RULES: Nid attack questions...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:59 pm 
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Hi Larry,

Yes you are correct the haruspex does not have a CC MW attack in its current incarnation... though I think it probably should... (look at the size of those claws!!)

Yes the Venom fex should only get one VC shot.

Regarding comparison with Leman Russ - it is a little difficult to compare a ranged with a close combat unit IMHO. A better comarison would be a close combat dreadnought or terminator. However while the the Leman Russ is powerful at range, it is not very good in CC and its weapons are not MW. Also remember a carni can spawn anywhere.

Whether unstoppable is balanced out going to ground is a matter for playtesting. Personally I think not at this stage... though I have been using tyrants with RA, rather than with invulnerable and tyrant guard attacks.

As per Jervis's instructions I am still examining the current list in the light of the new 40k nid codex, and playtesting some options (as well as waiting to hear back from other playtesters - such as yourself! (I believe you had a battle reprot on the way?)).





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