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Playtest Changes

 Post subject: Playtest Changes
PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:22 am 
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This thread will be updated with changes under consideration for each of the three AdMech lists. Check back here to see what's being discussed for the next release. A change listed here does not ensure inclusion in the final release.

Global Proposed changes:

Errata:

AMTL Proposed changes:
Add Allies section capped at 25% of force
Add Knight Household to Allies, allow all upgrades except baron.
Remove Forge Knights.
Errata:

Skitarii Proposed changes:
Carapace Landing Pad to 50 points
Quake Cannons +25 points to 100 points.
Support Missile +25 points to 75 points
Avengers gain +1 Lascannon per unit.
Ordinatus Golgotha (hellfire missiles) stats replaced with 3bp MW, Slow Firing, Indirect, Uses Orbital Bombardment Template. Cost increases +50 points to 200 points.

Errata:

Cataphractii Proposed changes:
No changes. List has not reached the initial release.

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 Post subject: Re: Playtest Changes
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:07 am 
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noted.

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 Post subject: Re: Playtest Changes
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 5:59 pm 
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Updated with Gatling blaster proposed changes

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 Post subject: Re: Playtest Changes
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:17 am 
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As I said when you mentioned you were thinking about the Gatling Blaster change while discussing other stuff over PM, I think it's a great idea that fixes an iconic weapons which is currently clearly underpar in comparison to the other options.

In 40k a Gatling Blaster has many more, less powerful shots in comparison to a Laser Blaster/Triple Turbo Laser (for the latter to have the same amount of shots in epic seems ok - we don't have to follow 40k that closely - but for the TTL/LB to have 50% more shots says things are too out of whack with the translation of the GB). A 40k GB puts out identical firepower to 6 x Leman Russ Battlecannon and the gun clearly has 6 large barrels.

However a 6 shot Gatling Blaster seems too good in comparison to the other weapons at 25 points so I think it should go up to 35 points each in the ATML lists (no price change for the allied SM/IG Warlord, it's not taken much and could do with a small boost).


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 Post subject: Re: Playtest Changes
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:56 am 
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25 point weapons are:

CCW: not really an issue since the reasons for taking it and capabilities are vastly different.

Apoc Launcher: It's either part of a standard pattern reaver where it makes no difference or part of a cheap artillery titan where the GB doesn't really factor in as an option. I haven't seem the Apoc used much, if at all outside of those cases.

Plasma Cannon: biggest direct competition in the 25 point weapons since both are direct fire options and fairly inexpensive. You should average around 2.5 hits over two turns vs around 6 for the GB. I think that if you run the math vs. various armor types that comes out pretty close unless the target has no armor. GB does get a boost if you are sustaining a lot though.

I think we can leave it at 25 points and see how it plays. If it's too much, I'd drop it back to 5 shots before changing the price. I see 35 points as being far more of a turn off to using it since everything else in the list is in multiples of 25 than just leaving it at 4 shots.

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 Post subject: Re: Playtest Changes
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:19 am 
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Run with it at 25 if you like, but I am concerned it's too cheap.

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I see 35 points as being far more of a turn off to using it since everything else in the list is in multiples of 25

Why is this a problem? There would be no issue with it being the only 35 point upgrade in the list, it would effectively mean one in an army was generally like spending 50 points, but you could get two for 70 rather than 2 for 100, so it would encourage an even number of 35 point upgrades in the list. The extra fine tuning of relative worth with 35 would help IMO.


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 Post subject: Re: Playtest Changes
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:08 am 
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What you posted is the exact reason people don't like 35 point weapons. It's not worth 50 points nor is it so much more useful than the TLD that people will bother dealing with the off number just to use the GB. It stays @ 25 points.

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 Post subject: Re: Playtest Changes
PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:01 pm 
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changed pricing on TLD, GB and Apoc launcher. Should give players a couple of options to keep the points even and keep the standard titan costs the same.

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 Post subject: Re: Playtest Changes
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:15 am 
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um, standard reaver is +20 points from TLDs -10 points from AML
standard warlord is +20 points from TLDs and -10 points from GB

so neither of the standard battle titans cost the same, both have increased by 10 points

introducing a single 35 point item is, as it was before, a terrible idea. the introduction of the 15 point items does little to mitigate it
either: people will have to start taking AMLs and GB's in combinations of 5 in order to actually get a discount

or they will have to take TLDs in combinations of 5 more than any AMLs and GBs in the list in order not to lose points
guess it does encourage the laser blaster use though.

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 Post subject: Re: Playtest Changes
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:25 am 
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Sorry, my math was off. TLD should be 30 not 35. That makes it +10 for the two TLD and -10 for the Apoc launcher.

Basically, for every two tld, you need one GB or Apoc launcher if you don't want to have spare points. Three Tld leaves you 10 points under. Realistically speaking the likely 10to 20point deficit if you decide not to bother with ensuring your weapons add up to multiples of 25 will have zero impact on a Titan list.

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 Post subject: Re: Playtest Changes
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:32 am 
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Or you coud be a few points short. Even if you're 20 points short you're losing .66% of your total in a 3k game. Does it really matter that much?

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 Post subject: Re: Playtest Changes
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:57 am 
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On the Avenger. These guys are pretty soft and I'm not entirely convinced at their utility as an attack aircraft for 225 points. I think they managed to toast maybe two land speeders and were promptly shot down by a flight of thunderbolts on intercept. They might do better being held in reserve to strafe broken formations but I can't really see them useful in an attack roll with 6+ armor. If anyone has a chance please give them a go and report back on your findings!

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 Post subject: Re: Playtest Changes
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:57 am 
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They did well in my latest 2K game against Steel Legion who had 1 formation of thunderbolts.

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 Post subject: Re: Playtest Changes
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:36 am 
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Can you expand on that a bit more? How were they used, did they come under fire, what kind of damage did the do, stuff like that.

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 Post subject: Re: Playtest Changes
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:03 am 
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They where used to attack infantry turn 1 and 2. 3:rd turn one formation attacked leman russes just to put BM:s.
They came under fire from intercepting thunderbolts in turn 2 but the dice gods where with me and i saved the lone hit.

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