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Playtest Changes

 Post subject: Re: Playtest Changes
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 5:50 pm 
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Awesome! Thanks Dave!

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 Post subject: Re: Playtest Changes
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:56 am 
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Added two minor proposed changes to the list.

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 Post subject: Re: Playtest Changes
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 11:10 pm 
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A couple of Skitarii changes I've been thinking about:

1. Increase Hypaspist range to 45cm. Reason: There's not a whole lot of reason to take them outside of garrison, babysitting a barrage missile minorus, and to get a magos. Compared to Steel legion you have fewer stands and worse weapons for the price. There is some counterbalance with the secutors being much superior to IG. I think 45cm range will help them function a bit better.


2. Reduce the chassis cost of the Minorus by 25 points ( minorus coy > 250 before weapons, upgrade goes to 100 points) Reason: because of the limited access to transport I think Skitarii need to have a few more points available for upgrades and weapons. From the lists I've seen so far, this should free up between 50 and 150 points. Goal: encourage more and /or heavier weapons to support skitarii.

3. Reduce chassis cost of the Majoris by 100 to 150 points. It's almost always a poor choice to take with you so maybe a points drop will at least set better expectations. Problems are generally slow, fragile, and tough to set up for anything other than the Golgotha.

What do you folks think?

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 Post subject: Re: Playtest Changes
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 3:24 pm 
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Had a look at the Minorus again, and the key problem with them as I see it is that it has 15cm move, meaning that it is a transport that doesn't make the formation faster. I'd hesitate to keep the infantry inside as I don't think it's tough enough to protect the formation from enemy fire, and the crit is really nasty. Also, since it is a WE taking it means that you can't garrison.

The price for them is probably OK if you take a battle titan weapon, but if you go with a Corvus Pod then it is much too high.

Not sure how I would do it instead, but at least something for you to consider.

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 Post subject: Re: Playtest Changes
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 3:43 pm 
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Increasing range for the hypatists would be to make them more similar to the IG which you have stated before that you want to avoid. I think the increased firepower but decreased range compared to the IG gives the list a good nische.
I still think the transport options are the main problems of the list...

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 Post subject: Re: Playtest Changes
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 6:02 pm 
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Mrdiealot wrote:
Had a look at the Minorus again, and the key problem with them as I see it is that it has 15cm move, meaning that it is a transport that doesn't make the formation faster. I'd hesitate to keep the infantry inside as I don't think it's tough enough to protect the formation from enemy fire, and the crit is really nasty. Also, since it is a WE taking it means that you can't garrison.


IIRC the current rules state that the Corvus Assault Pod increases the Ordinatus Minoris’ speed to 25cm, and CCWs & Laser Burners increase the CC rating to 3+.

It’s in the extended unit entries, but might not have made it into the army list or unit entry data on the most recent rules set. Possibly.

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 Post subject: Re: Playtest Changes
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 6:55 pm 
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Armiger84 wrote:
IIRC the current rules state that the Corvus Assault Pod increases the Ordinatus Minoris’ speed to 25cm, and CCWs & Laser Burners increase the CC rating to 3+.

It’s in the extended unit entries, but might not have made it into the army list or unit entry data on the most recent rules set. Possibly.


Well, that sounds a lot more reasonable.

But I can't find it anywhere in version 2.05, which is the one I've been looking at. There's another version somewhere?

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 Post subject: Re: Playtest Changes
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 8:28 pm 
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Quote:
Increasing range for the hypatists would be to make them more similar to the IG which you have stated before that you want to avoid.


I do want to avoid too close to IG, but it does feel like the Demi-century needs some kind of boost to make them more attractive. The main issue is the demi-century has less firepower than IG without the secutors and even with them it's still pretty situaitonal. The main reason is that AP5/AT6 45cm autocannon gives the guardsmen a bit of an edge to engage both AV and AP targets at a longer range than Skitarii. Any ideas on what kind of boost other than range we could give them?


Quote:
The price for them is probably OK if you take a battle titan weapon, but if you go with a Corvus Pod then it is much too high.


On their own they aren't priced badly, but I think as a whole skitarii needs to be able to leverage better or more firepower to boost their competitiveness. I'm leary to give other formations a discount because my experience is they play well at their points. To encourage more minorus or better weapons on the minorus I was looking at the price drop. 150 points gets you an extra crusader formation or perhaps upgrading minorus to more 50 point weapons, etc.


Quote:
But I can't find it anywhere in version 2.05, which is the one I've been looking at. There's another version somewhere?


It's listed in the datasheet entry for the Minorus at the end of the PDF.

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 Post subject: Re: Playtest Changes
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 9:20 pm 
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Aha, ok that's where it was.

You should probably add a note in the quick reference sheet as well, as that will be the first place most people look.

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 Post subject: Re: Playtest Changes
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 11:32 pm 
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I've got it fixed on the next release of the list. Don't have the CC change though, still don't have a good place to stick it. Was hoping to wait until the list made it through approval before I release it.


Just one more report to go.

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 Post subject: Playtest Changes
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 10:45 pm 
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Vaaish wrote:
I do want to avoid too close to IG, but it does feel like the Demi-century needs some kind of boost to make them more attractive. The main issue is the demi-century has less firepower than IG without the secutors and even with them it's still pretty situaitonal. The main reason is that AP5/AT6 45cm autocannon gives the guardsmen a bit of an edge to engage both AV and AP targets at a longer range than Skitarii. Any ideas on what kind of boost other than range we could give them?


If you want to take a look at the modern Skitarii codex there might be a few options.

Modern Skitarii have:
- radium carbines (radiation weaponry) for a standard issue weapon
- arc rifles (electrical energy) as an upgrade
- plasma calivers (plasma gun) as an upgrade

Skitarii Rangers have:
- galvanic rifles (homing electricity-discharging bullets) as standard issue weapons
- transuranic arquebuses (um, heavy radiation rifle(?))
- arc rifles (electrical energy) as an upgrade
- plasma calivers (plasma gun) as an upgrade

The standard-ish heavy weapon, a heavy bolter analogue (but mostly vehicle mounted) is a phosphor blaster, with burning rounds.

...Which all could be abstracted out as “Ignore Cover” for the heavy weapon, maybe firefight value too. Briefly considered Disrupt instead, but that felt pretty nasty.

Alternatively could swap for a plasma gun?

Despite Skitarii being designed for marching relentlessly across the open desert in the lore, it would make them pretty brutal city fighters.

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 Post subject: Re: Playtest Changes
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 2:38 am 
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I think of all of those, only the arc rifles would work without stepping on the sagitarii. Another alternative would be to make the mauler bolt cannon a 4+AP / 6+ AT. Might work without stepping on the Sagitarii's 2x 5+ap/5+at.

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 Post subject: Re: Playtest Changes
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 6:54 pm 
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Maybe make them FF4+?
Fits them being somewhere between guard and marines ( who are supposed to be going to FF3+ )


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 Post subject: Re: Playtest Changes
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 7:06 pm 
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It's a thought, but Sagitarii are already 4+ so it's not necessarily warranted with Hypasists. Maybe CC 4+? That would make them jive pretty well with a CC Minorus getting a 3+ CC value :)

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 Post subject: Re: Playtest Changes
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 8:05 pm 
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Maybe swap them to theme them a bit stronger?

That'd make it really slow wouldnt it?


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