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2015 Knight World Playtest Changes
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=29049
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Author:  Dave [ Sun Feb 15, 2015 2:21 pm ]
Post subject:  2015 Knight World Playtest Changes

Following this thread...

The two main areas of concern where the cost/affectiveness of the Custodians and Errants.

As the Custodians have had a price increase already (to 375 in 2.2.1) that hasn't seen many playtests. I'd like to see how that shakes out before anything else done. Next steps would likely be messing with the BP option or another price increase.

On the Errants, if you're willing please test as follows:

Code:
Formation: Knight Household
Units:     Three Knight Paladins
Extras:    Add up to three Knight Paladins for +90 points each
           Replace any number of Knight Paladins with an equal number of Knight Errants for +10 points each
Cost:      300 points

Author:  mordoten [ Sun Feb 15, 2015 6:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2015 Knight World Playtest Changes

Maybe Custodians could have 1BP MW each? Judt a thought.

Author:  Redgeran [ Mon Feb 16, 2015 5:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2015 Knight World Playtest Changes

Quote:
On the Errants...


What if the Errants just dropped their shock lance? Errants would still be the more potent knight and paladins would still have less power but more reach both in firepower and firefights. Plus maybe there would be no need then to mess with the point system.

Oh and can someone clarify where said shock lance actually exists? I can't find any lore on it and the models don't appear to have any "lance" like parts to them either.

Author:  mordoten [ Mon Feb 16, 2015 7:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2015 Knight World Playtest Changes

Hmmm... Thats actually a pretty good idea.

Author:  jimmyzimms [ Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2015 Knight World Playtest Changes

Redgeran wrote:
Quote:
On the Errants...

Oh and can someone clarify where said shock lance actually exists? I can't find any lore on it and the models don't appear to have any "lance" like parts to them either.


It's part of the new current Knights fluff which this list represents.http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Cerastus_Shock_Lance

I'm not sure as to why Errants have them in this list. Don't they instead have the giant D-class chainsaw thing instead?

Author:  Dave [ Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2015 Knight World Playtest Changes

The shock lance is effectively a giant static shock, the knight charges to power it and it discharges right before combat. Same thing with the power lance, it's just bigger. See the SM/TL Codex Titanicus for it.

Giving that the Pal, Err and Lan all had them back then it's going to stay. Also, it's not really the issue that was stressed with the Errant. It's its MW FF.

Author:  Redgeran [ Tue Feb 17, 2015 3:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2015 Knight World Playtest Changes

Quote:
Giving that the Pal, Err and Lan all had them back then it's going to stay. Also, it's not really the issue that was stressed with the Errant. It's its MW FF.


Fair enough.

Out of curiosity how does MW in assault actually work on war engines? I assume it's not like Small Arms, EA(+1), MW such as with wraithguard where only the EA gets the MW bonus. For war engines then does each DC attack becomes macro?

And if MW is really the main issue why not just get rid of it? There is plenty of precedent, war engines in particular, that do not get MW in assault (specifically FF) despite fairly powerful ranged armaments. Shadowswords, stormblades, super-stompas, gargants, tau riptides, etc. If they actually have it, often times the only reason they have MW in FF is because of a particular weapon, and even then they only get Small Arms, EA(+1), MW in most cases. In fact there are even more non-war engines that do not get MW despite very powerful ranged weapons, deathstrikes, fusion cannon hammerheads, LR executioners to name a few. More often than not MW is used in FF with comparatively small weapons such as melta guns, multimeltas, etc. which are far less cumbersome than say a thermal cannon might be. If anything a thermal cannon would cause collateral damage in an assault due to how massive, powerful, and cumbersome it could be.

Anyways, I am open to the +10 point change, but just want to say that the list feels tight for points as it is and if implemented just a few errants could mean the difference between an additional knight or not. This may be fine as it forces decision the player must make when list building. Perhaps the errants need a price bump for what they do or perhaps the errants just need a slight nerf to keep them in line with paladins. Love the list in the mean time and congrats on getting it approved! ;D

Author:  Dave [ Tue Feb 17, 2015 4:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2015 Knight World Playtest Changes

MW (with no EA +X) means all the attacks would be MW. 2 FF attacks on the case of the errant.

Just getting rid of it would mean another point adjustment and more testing. So rather than testing two changes, test one. Also, given that its only weapon is MW (like a Land Speeder) it stands to reason that the FF would be MW too (like a Land Speeder). As people think this makes it better than the Paladin, we up the cost so you can't take as many and test.

Author:  Mard [ Wed Feb 18, 2015 11:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2015 Knight World Playtest Changes

As a thought, have we considered making the custodian formation 0-1?
I think points wise everything in the list already feels right and gels really nicely. The limit on the amount of this formation would stop everyone's fear of the custodian spam

Author:  JimXII [ Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2015 Knight World Playtest Changes

Hi Dave,
I like the suggested playtest suggestions. Especially seeing as though you are trying slow and steady changes to rectify the problem areas one at a time.
Cheers,
Jim

Author:  Mard [ Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2015 Knight World Playtest Changes

I'll change the Custodians to be updated to 2.2.1 in AF tonight and get the update off to Kyuss

Author:  Matt-Shadowlord [ Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2015 Knight World Playtest Changes

I'll complete and post a playtest report up soon, using 2.2 (but not the various optional test changes listed above), which I hope you will find useful.

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