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Does Titan Legion work as Tournament list?

 Post subject: Does Titan Legion work as Tournament list?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:43 pm 
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hi

did any of you tried to use the Titan Legion list on a 3000 Points tournament? how did your army looked like? i m thinking about using 2 warlord 1 reaver and 2 warhounds, or not the reaver and then 4 warhounds.


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 Post subject: Re: Does Titan Legion work as Tournament list?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:29 pm 
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True running a list like that will have resonably good fire power but you will be doubly out activated. Any opponent you play against who has experience will crush that list.

I play titan legions occationally this is the general list I use:

Incompertus, 3000 POINTS 
Legio Gryphonicus (NetEA v3.24 *APPROVED*) 
==================================================
REAVER TITAN [700] 
Apocalypse Missile Launcher, 2 Turbo-laser Destructor, Legate
REAVER TITAN [625] 
2 Turbo-laser Destructor, Laser Burner
REAVER TITAN [625] 
Apocalypse Missile Launcher, Turbo-laser Destructor, Laser Burner
WARHOUND TITAN [275] 
Vulcan Megabolter, Plasma Blastgun
WARHOUND TITAN [275] 
Vulcan Megabolter, Plasma Blastgun
THUNDERBOLT SQUADRON [150] 
2 Thunderbolts
SKITARII DEMI-CENTURY [200] 
2 Secutor, 8 Hypaspists
CRUSADER SCOUT MANIPLE [150] 
4 Crusader Robots

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 Post subject: Re: Does Titan Legion work as Tournament list?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:57 pm 
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Yeah, I've taken a titan legion to 3 different tournaments this year.

I use the Epic-UK list which is fairly different, but for what it's worth this is the list I used at the last tournament (I came roughly midway out of the players):

Warlord - 2 Plasma Cannon, Lasburner, Volcano Cannon - 850
Warlord - Close Combat Arm, Quake Cannon, Multiple Rocket Launcher, Carapace Landing Platform - 850
Reaver - Hydra Platfom, Turbo Laser Destructor, Plasma Cannon - 650
Reaver - 2 Inferno Gun, Melta Cannon - 650

The downside to cramming 2 Warlords in and 4 battle titans overall was that I had no points whatsoever spare for upgrades (in the Epic-UK list the titans are the same base cost whatever weapons you choose for them) and so both Warlords were jointly BTS, but they're tough to kill and I see it as worth it. Playing high activation armies can be a challenge but possible if I can manage to keep the titans alive and whittle down the enemy formations.


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 Post subject: Re: Does Titan Legion work as Tournament list?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 1:27 am 
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Titans do work but you'll probably see a lot of games go to points, especially with a two warlord list at 3k. Keep in mind the EUK list has some similarities with NetEA list, but the structure is different and EUK boosted a lot of the titan firepower compared to the NetEA list.

For titans you need to balance the large titans with total activation count. If you take five formations you can expect that by turn three you'll be down to the two warlords. Depending on objective placement you could pull off points but you won't have enough stuff to hold anything against a good player.

I'd try to get around 7 formations in a 3k game with Titans. Six at the bare minimum and 8 if you are willing to cut back titan upgrades. Here's a single warlord list I've been working with:

WARLORD TITAN [825]
2 Laser Blaster, 2 Plasma Cannon

REAVER TITAN [650]
Apocalypse Missile Launcher, Laser Blaster, Gatling Blaster

REAVER TITAN [625]
Apocalypse Missile Launcher, Gatling Blaster, Plasma Cannon

WARHOUND TITAN [300]
Plasma Blastgun, Vulcan Megabolter, Veteran Princeps

CRUSADER SCOUT MANIPLE [150]
4 Crusader Robots

CRUSADER SCOUT MANIPLE [150]
4 Crusader Robots

THUNDERBOLT SQUADRON [150]
2 Thunderbolts

THUNDERBOLT SQUADRON [150]
2 Thunderbolts

Depending on what you want it could be worth it to swap out a tbolt for another Crusader.

EDIT: Just noticed that Armyforge doesn't have the correct prices in for the Warlord, Reaver, and Skitarii.

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 Post subject: Re: Does Titan Legion work as Tournament list?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 7:23 am 
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Reducing whittling down formations is why I like the battle titan only list. I'd say in maybe a quarter of my tournament games with a 4 titan list I've not lost a single titan by the end of the game, depending who I'm playing and if being careful with terrain and marshalling.

If I was to go back to the Net-EA list I'd actually try a list with 2 Warlords and 3 Reavers at 3k. No points for upgrades whatsoever and joint BTS but such a list has it's strengths. I'd sit one warlord on the Blitz all game, sadly it would be able to contribute long range firepower but I'd give it maybe 2 x Plasma Blastgun and 2 x Las Burner and sit in on overwatch. The other 4 battle titans would have 1-2 Las Burners each, meaning each is a nightmare to CC (as an aside I find the Epic-UK Las Burner fairer - as though it's a very powerful FF weapon, it has no effect on CC, forcing the owning player to make harder choices at list building rather being good at both CC and FF).

A 2 Warlord and 2 Reaver list with 550 points to spare for weapons and perhaps a formation or two of Thunderbolts would be quite viable too - I wouldn't personally take any Crusaders or Warhounds in a tournament list as they're too easy to kill. Back in the day and based on popular wisdom I used think a list with 4-5 activations would always lose but selected and played right it can be perfectly viable.


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 Post subject: Re: Does Titan Legion work as Tournament list?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 10:54 am 
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How can you field 3 reaver plus two warlords with all the additional weapon costs at 3000p using the tournament pack?


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 Post subject: Re: Does Titan Legion work as Tournament list?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 12:26 pm 
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By taking only free weapon choices and no paid upgrades. It's a bit minimalist but strong in other ways.


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 Post subject: Re: Does Titan Legion work as Tournament list?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 3:33 pm 
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Not sure how that would perform. Seems like it would be pretty boring to play and play against.

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 Post subject: Re: Does Titan Legion work as Tournament list?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:03 pm 
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Hmm, with the free weapons i don t see a chance doing real damage, or am i wrong?


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 Post subject: Re: Does Titan Legion work as Tournament list?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:58 pm 
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Epic is won on objectives rather than killing the enemy and it would be challenging for the enemy to kill the Blitzguard Warlord or take out enough of the 4 battle titans coming in their direction to stop them getting to the objectives in their half (placing your two objectives in a triangle with the enemy blitz and each just over 30cm apart is a good tactic here, so that a single titan could capture all 3 in one potentially). Assaults are more important to winning the game than shooting and the powerful CC and FF weapons in the list are all free.

I wouldn’t run such a list all the time, but it could be something different to try occasionally and it would be hard to win against (if you were to give all 5 titans a close combat weapon the list would be a nightmare for armies that specialise in CC to go up against e.g. tyranids, orks, SM or CSM lists with lots of Terminators, ect).


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 Post subject: Re: Does Titan Legion work as Tournament list?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 8:50 pm 
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Glyn is right about objectives being important. The problem with the type of list Glyn proposes is that it's a pretty one dimensional and static list. The formations are durable so you can almost certainly assume they will get where you want them but they can only really charge forward to the objectives and sit hoping to force CC by enemy troops attempting to push them off the objective. It would win against someone who keeps feeding the titans formations in hopes of doing something or worse fails to concentrate on one titan until it died. Against most seasoned players the titans will have difficulty preventing the objectives from being contested. Most of the time I'd wager that the game would end in a draw.

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 Post subject: Re: Does Titan Legion work as Tournament list?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:52 am 
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This was my List for the EEC 2017 in Copenhagen:

Titan Legion 3000 Points

Reaver + Gatling Blaster + CloseCombat Weapon + MeltaCannon + Legat = 675 Punkte
-
Reaver + TurboLaserDestructor + VulcanMegabolter + CloseCombat Weapon + Veteran Princeps = 600 Punkte
-
Reaver + 2 PlasmaBlastguns + Turbo LaserDestructor = 575 Punkte
-
Warhound + InfernoCannon + TurboLaserDestructor = 300 Punkte
-
Warhound + Vulcan Megabolter + Plasma Blastgun = 275 Punkte

-

Warhound + Vulcan Megabolter + Plasma Blastgun = 275 Punkte

-

Crusader Robot Maniple = 150 Punkte

-
2 Thunderbolts = 150 Punkte

Yeah, I lost all 3 games, but with a better Commander ( not me ) it could have been one win, one draw and one loss...

Next time ;-)


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 Post subject: Re: Does Titan Legion work as Tournament list?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:36 pm 
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When ever I tried low activation big titan lists my opponents bog down the advance with a fast scout formation or two. Losing a whole turn of movement and shooting to deal with a cheap scout formation is massively detrimental. Also the CC and FF weapons are still constrained by the FFA and FWA mounting restrictions in assaults. So when engaged a smart fast opponent can position forces to prevent the combat arm from even being used. Not to mention titans blocking line of sight of your own titans for supporting fire. Terminators with some back up Suportjng fire can easily break a reaver.

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 Post subject: Re: Does Titan Legion work as Tournament list?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:21 pm 
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If the assault weapons have arcs that is disappointing, and easily dealt with in the list if so desired.

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 Post subject: Re: Does Titan Legion work as Tournament list?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:52 pm 
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I don't think this question has been brought up before. Orks are probably the best example but their weapons attach the fire arc to the weapon profile. AMTL has a bit different system that attaches the weapon arc to the weapon slot on the titan itself. eg. any carapace weapon selected inherits the fixed forward arc of the carapace mount. That being the case, I'd say that AMTL weapons such as laser burners and CCW's would inherit the firing arc of the location they are placed on and that a savvy player could avoid the extra attacks those weapons provide by carefully placing units outside of the firing arcs.

I don't have any plans to change this.

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