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Fir Iolarion 4.2.4

 Post subject: Fir Iolarion 4.2.4
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 4:13 am 
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I figure its time for a new thread since there's some significant changes.

The big things are the change from War Walkers to Wasp Walkers, the addition of the Vampire Hunter and Revenants moving back into Troupes.

The big questions on my end are do we need 2 or 3 troupes per warhost to make this work and what do you think of the Hunter having the holofield that it does in fluff?


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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion 4.2.4
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:21 pm 
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I should be able to playtest this the next time we get together. The Eldar titans are getting cleaned up and built now.

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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion 4.2.4
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:54 pm 
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Sounds good Dave. If you want I'll bring mine and we can have a Titan Rumble.


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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion 4.2.4
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:54 pm 
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hi scarik,

nice to see up a new version. though not being a fan of the idea of an all out eldar titan army I would still like to add some comments from my side.

It feels somehow odd to have an invulnarable save on a titan as the bonesinger upgrade confers in addition to supreme commander. I would make that one go. also the upgrade titan exarch is feeling a bit like powercreep to me. only the warlock should be inspiring.

as a workaround you could put inspiring as treat into the bonesinger upgrade as i see it more fitting there. yes, on a warlock it would be wasted but it would make a phantom sc more attractive and solve the exarch situation if you really want to have inspiring on a phantom.

I'm not fully convinced about the revenant solution. As a single it should be even more expensive in this list. or you could move the double into warhost and leave the single in troupes. or make a n expensive single in troupes with an cheaper upgrade option to double that would then compensate back to normal cost.

also the aircraft section set ill with me. i would love to have the option of a 2 unit strong formation of nightwings in any eldar list as it would make them so much viable to take. but with this list you already boast aa in every titan formation, why should fir iolarion also benefit from a cheaper fighter activation. reads most unfair and discussion raising. stick to the original formation size for 300 and avoid that i'd say.

also the knights should under no circumstances be able to receive a 4+ inv save. 5+ is already ott imo. they are way to cheap in that configuration also. if you want to stick to the inv save due to holofields which i could understand make it the main line of defense for them by forcing those inv saves more often. an easy way to achieve this would be to lower the base save to 5+ or 6+ (this would also befit their speed)

Otherwise I'm pretty sure with some consideation I'd be able to beat absolutely any other build with this list as the balance is somehow missing.

sorry to be just a put down here, but I don't mean in personal way so please don't take it the wrong way

:)

happy gaming


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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion 4.2.4
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:13 pm 
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Thanks, Graf. I'll remember you when we talk about some of those cross-list units. I can't change the Knight stats on my own like I can the Titan weapons and unit options.

Revenants are the main issue I feel this list has in that there needs to be a way to handle them that isn't just a ban. I need a few more games to settle my opinion but I can say making them a warhost without other restrictions is not a good solution since it leads to armies of Revs.

The single Rev is its own issue and one I am open to correcting with a points upgrade. I'm planning to get a game with them at 400 points to see how that affects the list.

Personally I'm a fan of all Eldar having access to Nightwings in pairs so part of their reason for being here is to test how that works. I will not die on that hill though so they are something that can change in the next revision.

I'm surprised that no one has an opinion on the Hunter yet since its a WE transport aircraft with a holofield. I've had mixed results with them so far myself. It can be a very nasty surprise when it drops Wasps but its a fragile thing so its not an Engage formation and it needs lots of back up.


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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion 4.2.4
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:11 am 
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Thanks, Graf for the feed back...nice to see..

I think scarik has cover most of concern already in his reply, but i will say that the list is not set in stone and it's slow grow...so things will change..Oh um-mm any Batrep yet graf using the list.... ;D

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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion 4.2.4
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:32 pm 
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scarik wrote:
Thanks, Graf. I'll remember you when we talk about some of those cross-list units. I can't change the Knight stats on my own like I can the Titan weapons and unit options.


np, amigo.
ah, ok. that somehow slipped me. yeah thats tricky then. still they feel a bit opressive to me concerning their abilities at that cost. so adjusting points would be the only control here if it comes to that.

scarik wrote:
I'm surprised that no one has an opinion on the Hunter yet since its a WE transport aircraft with a holofield. I've had mixed results with them so far myself. It can be a very nasty surprise when it drops Wasps but its a fragile thing so its not an Engage formation and it needs lots of back up.


thats exactly why i didnt comment on it. I only view flying transport we with regard to their assault capability. I see no issue with the hunter in that with the list as it is. the rest is up to testing.
:)

PFE200 wrote:
.Oh um-mm any Batrep yet graf using the list.... ;D


ahh.. you know with the upcoming eu championchip next month in copenhagen I'm all out with list changing (like everyday) painting and and test battling various settings. unfortunatedly i won't be playing eldar.. so, no I'm sorry. but after that event I'll be persuing batrepping again. (actually i had an ulthwe game lined up 3 weeks ago but it didn't not fit in afterall with the first game for kopenhagen practising as that one took unexpectedly long with all the discussion and stuff)


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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion 4.2.4
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:10 am 
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Graf_Spee wrote:
but it didn't not fit in afterall with the first game for kopenhagen practising as that one took unexpectedly long with all the discussion and stuff)

You are practising?

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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion 4.2.4
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:21 am 
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Tiny-Tim wrote:
Graf_Spee wrote:
but it didn't not fit in afterall with the first game for kopenhagen practising as that one took unexpectedly long with all the discussion and stuff)

You are practising?



Jesus. Should we be doing that too? :-)

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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion 4.2.4
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:09 am 
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Yes we are. To get the knack of rolling dice correctly and keep those 1s at a minimum :D

Na.. seriously. Yeah.. everyone wants to try his lists, builds and variations thereof. So yeah we play and discuss. Normally it only leads to confusion, doubts and a multitude of different opinions. Bit good fun also


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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion 4.2.4
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:31 am 
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Graf_Spee wrote:
Yes we are. To get the knack of rolling dice correctly and keep those 1s at a minimum :D


I've never got the hang of that one! ;D ;D ;D

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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion 4.2.4
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:54 pm 
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StevekCole wrote:
Graf_Spee wrote:
Yes we are. To get the knack of rolling dice correctly and keep those 1s at a minimum :D


I've never got the hang of that one! ;D ;D ;D


Maybe I'll show you how at EEC if we make some progress here ;)


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