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[NetEA] Eldar Month!

 Post subject: [NetEA] Eldar Month!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:24 pm 
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So, this is "Eldar Month" in the Net EA schedule.

Things have been pretty quiet around here lately, the "proposed changes" seem to have been met with acceptance, and, other than Howling Banshees, most of the units seem in good shape.

Biel-Tan has seen a lot of playtesting, but has there been much other going on?

I'd really like to see some games with Alaitoc, as they seem to be the least played Craftworld, but any other Craftworlds are good too.

So, what shall we discuss?

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 Post subject: [NetEA] Eldar Month!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:40 pm 
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Aspect Warriors.

We may as well start with them since they are such a big part of the list and aren't remotely balanced to one another.

Warp Spiders are still awesome, Howling Banshees are terrible.

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 Post subject: [NetEA] Eldar Month!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:46 pm 
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What about EoVs? Are they really worth 750 for three? Are all 4 worth 250 for one? Comparing them to falcons and fire prisms, they seem to come up short for me. Maybe the points for the AVs need to be raised, or the points for the EoVs need to be lowered.

I dunno.


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 Post subject: [NetEA] Eldar Month!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:52 pm 
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I second the comments on the Warp Spiders.  They are the no-brainer choice despite the changes.

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 Post subject: [NetEA] Eldar Month!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:53 pm 
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I'd never take 3 EoV's of any flavour for 750 points. That said I'm not sure I'd take 3 even if the points were dropped a bit.


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 Post subject: [NetEA] Eldar Month!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:30 pm 
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With EoVs you could use the IG SHT logic and give a hefty discount on 3.

1 for 250, 3 for 650 or even 600.

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 Post subject: [NetEA] Eldar Month!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:57 pm 
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Quote: (scarik @ 14 Aug. 2008, 21:30 )

With EoVs you could use the IG SHT logic and give a hefty discount on 3.

1 for 250, 3 for 650 or even 600.

I believe the actual original design goal was to make the "Three Pack" of EoVs *un*attractive, so no Ork-like discounts for larger formations.

I really don't think there's a "need" for such large/expensive formations to be attractive, just that the option is open for those who'd like to try it.  Personally, I'd rather have the multiple activations, even if they're each individually more vulnerable.

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 Post subject: [NetEA] Eldar Month!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:44 am 
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A pair of Cobras is a reasonable formation - but means that you need to field a bigger formation as your BTS, which rapidly gets to be a very expensive army. I have also toyed with a pair of Storm Serpents to provide a number of attacks, but it can be awefully vulnerable.

After that, Chroma is right that the extra activation is often more valuable than a "bigger" attack. And anyway, I am not convinced that 3x EoV are the equivalent of a Phantom because of it's Holofield and being Fearless.

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 Post subject: [NetEA] Eldar Month!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:45 am 
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Well the formations are exceedingly unattractive, so if that was the plan it worked.

Troupes of 3 WEs are much less effective than singles, and with Eldar having 3 support compare to the IGs 2 there's no real penalty for just taking 3 separate ones.

Especially considering Guardian war hosts are cheap enough to spam if you want more Troupes.

I htink Aspect Warriors are really the big thing though, the list in general is ok, but the disparity in effectiveness of Aspects is huge.

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 Post subject: [NetEA] Eldar Month!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:52 pm 
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Quote: (Chroma @ 14 Aug. 2008, 22:57 )

Quote: (scarik @ 14 Aug. 2008, 21:30 )

With EoVs you could use the IG SHT logic and give a hefty discount on 3.

1 for 250, 3 for 650 or even 600.

I believe the actual original design goal was to make the "Three Pack" of EoVs *un*attractive, so no Ork-like discounts for larger formations.

I really don't think there's a "need" for such large/expensive formations to be attractive, just that the option is open for those who'd like to try it.  Personally, I'd rather have the multiple activations, even if they're each individually more vulnerable.

Signed. Points costs should indeed stay the same.

For me the problem is EoV´s beeing unbalanced to each other. While Void Spinner and Storm Serpent are really usefull tools and definitively worth their points the remaining two simply end up short in comparison. The situation seems to be very similar to the aspects, it´s not that easy to press that many different units under a template of fixed, identical point values... .

The Scorpion suffered by far the most from changing "pulse" reducing its firepower by an estimated third. As I already proposed, "de-linking" its pulsars - like the Revenants have it - could help here. Another way of making it competitive with AVs (and Revenants!) could be to increase its main weapons range to 75cm.

Cobras were a nice thing using the experimental MW barrage rules, which didn´t make it into the 2008-Errata - sadly enough. So what about making them 3BPs, which would also make single cobras an attractive choice again?

Just my two cents!  :smile:


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 Post subject: [NetEA] Eldar Month!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:57 pm 
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Quote: (Fenvarien @ 15 Aug. 2008, 15:52 )

The Scorpion suffered by far the most from changing "pulse" reducing its firepower by an estimated third. As I already proposed, "de-linking" its pulsars - like the Revenants have it - could help here. Another way of making it competitive with AVs (and Revenants!) could be to increase its main weapons range to 75cm.

Would a Scorpion with three shots instead of two be over the top?

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 Post subject: [NetEA] Eldar Month!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:59 pm 
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Quote: (scarik @ 14 Aug. 2008, 18:40 )

Aspect Warriors.

We may as well start with them since they are such a big part of the list and aren't remotely balanced to one another.

Warp Spiders are still awesome, Howling Banshees are terrible.

I wouldn´t underestimate the impact of loosing "scout" on Warp Spiders. This makes clipping tactics a lot more difficult. But I totally agree on Banshees. CC 2+ is a huge step in the right direction but they should at least have "first strike" in their notes or even better get "infltrator".

The question is what other aspects should be looked upon? Is there really that much need of further changes here?


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 Post subject: [NetEA] Eldar Month!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:05 pm 
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The EoVs should be left alone.  Most of the concerns over activations come into play in tournament games (2700-3000 point games).  Games of 4000-5000 points have a lot more room for these larger formations and I dare say a lot more opportunity to do some amazingly powerful things.

Fenvarian,

Have you played with the Warp Spiders since their change?  In all honesty its like they haven't changed at all.  Limiting their deployment has helped some but not enough.  Scout loss?  What?  They had scout before? :tongue:

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 Post subject: [NetEA] Eldar Month!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:05 pm 
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Quote: (Fenvarien @ 15 Aug. 2008, 15:59 )

The question is what other aspects should be looked upon? Is there really that much need of further changes here?

Other than Howling Banshees, I've used all the other Aspects, effectively, in either pure or mixed Warhosts and been happy with them.

Do people feel any of the other (not Banshees or Spiders) Aspect Warriors are 'off' in any way?

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 Post subject: [NetEA] Eldar Month!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:08 pm 
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Quote: (Moscovian @ 15 Aug. 2008, 16:05 )

Have you played with the Warp Spiders since their change?  In all honesty its like they haven't changed at all.  Limiting their deployment has helped some but not enough.  Scout loss?  What?  They had scout before? :tongue:

Well, now I add two Swooping Hawks to the formation to make up for the lack of scouts on the Warpies... so it's fewer firststrike attacks... *laugh*

With scouts, Warpies could jump around after a successful assault, and "harass" multiple enemy formations with their extended zones of control; that's what I usually did with them.  Losing it has lessened their tactical flexibility... but they still pack a punch.

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