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Fir Iolarion Eldar Titan Clan 4.2

 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion Eldar Titan Clan 4.2
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 11:30 am 
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PFE100 wrote:

I guess at the end of the day, try using the K.I.S.S approached…on a list that going to be hard to balance.. ;)



Someone has to ask the stupid question, so it might as well be me. :D


If an Eldar Titan list is going to be so hard to balance and so powerful vs certain opponents, and everyone seems to agree on both of these, then why do we want an Eldar Titan list?



I like Eldar, I like Eldar titans. But is there something I am missing that says we have to have an Eldar Titan list for use outside scenarios, even if it looks likely to be bad for the health of the tournament game?


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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion Eldar Titan Clan 4.2
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 12:45 pm 
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Quote:
Did I say it was impossible to balance, all I said was hard to balance.


That's what I said, I didn't use the 'i' word :D

But taking a step back from it, the list is hard to balance because it's unbalanced by design; it's an extreme list because it can effectively run only one type of unit (WE) by intent, and it is made capable of ignoring every point an opponent has spent on AP weapons without losing effectiveness. That's what it is and what it's supposed to be.

As someone who's only seen this from a distance, and with no disrespect meant to the people who've put it together, it all sounds like a scenario list rather than a tournament one.


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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion Eldar Titan Clan 4.2
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 1:49 pm 
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I don't think the list is all about shooting options. We've successfully run an assault version, basically a warlock and double Powerfist phantom running up the centre of the board fighting rolling assaults. It's very potent indeed (especially if you throw in an avatar).

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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion Eldar Titan Clan 4.2
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:12 pm 
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I don't see it as any different to the AMTL, Knights, inf-only armies in theory. I think the idea that it's too difficult to balance is an impression that has yet to be proven.

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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion Eldar Titan Clan 4.2
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 11:15 pm 
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Matt-Shadowlord wrote:
PFE100 wrote:

I guess at the end of the day, try using the K.I.S.S approached…on a list that going to be hard to balance.. ;)



Someone has to ask the stupid question, so it might as well be me. :D


If an Eldar Titan list is going to be so hard to balance and so powerful vs certain opponents, and everyone seems to agree on both of these, then why do we want an Eldar Titan list?



I like Eldar, I like Eldar titans. But is there something I am missing that says we have to have an Eldar Titan list for use outside scenarios, even if it looks likely to be bad for the health of the tournament game?


You could be right Matt, but only from the perspective of a tournament situation. If they can't be balanced enough to play in comps so be it really. Perhaps that shouldn't even be the goal? Perhaps the goal should just be to make them playable enough that you won't lose every friend you have when you turn up with them for a game! Everything else is secondary!


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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion Eldar Titan Clan 4.2
PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:04 am 
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Well to be fair, that is the NetEA charter after all ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion Eldar Titan Clan 4.2
PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 8:18 am 
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I think it's healthy for people to share concerns and thoughts on a list like this, keeping in mind the list is still assumed to very experimental.
I have hopes and aspirations that some day the list would be accepted at tournaments, the gap between now and then, how we further improve and balance the list obviously playing a major role.
It certainly feels like a long term project at this point. Anyone concerned that this process will be rushed through can indeed think again.
Taccoms is all about development and progression, if we don't at least try new things the community certainly wouldn't be where it is today. I think the argument that the army can abuse running all WE's is slightly flawed given the multitudes of other armies that are essentially the same, either WE's, armour , personnel etc. We don't criticise nids for spamming infantry that just made candidate B's high AT tau army pretty redundant.
I appreciate the faith Greg.
I'd certainly appreciate some of the greater minds of our community to post your most "disturbing" and cheese riddled army lists to point out problems or concerns as I believe this could go a long way to helping me with further development.

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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion Eldar Titan Clan 4.2
PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 9:52 am 
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Agree, plenty of armies can spam WEs. A recent tournament in the UK was won by a steel legion army containing 3 shadowsword cos, 3 single shadowswords, 2 warhounds and 2 flack batteries.

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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion Eldar Titan Clan 4.2
PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:45 am 
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Stevekcole -

Wow! That's such a silly list, my circle of friends have often joked and jested about such things but to think that actually showed up to a tournament and then also won is crazy.
Is there much of a "general" meta in the UK? or are there pockets of groups over the country that each have their own little meta?
It fascinates me to compare different epic communities around the globe.

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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion Eldar Titan Clan 4.2
PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:57 am 
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In fairness I think that shadowsword list is a big / risk big reward army - I would have felt fairly confident taking it on with an SM assault army (and I'm sure others would do better than me) but it managed to match up with a couple of shooty opponents on the day. (The guys and I keep meaning to proxy it for a refight some time.)

Eldar Titans should be balance-able but it will be tough.


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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion Eldar Titan Clan 4.2
PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 8:34 pm 
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Fudd wrote:
Stevekcole -

Wow! That's such a silly list, my circle of friends have often joked and jested about such things but to think that actually showed up to a tournament and then also won is crazy.
Is there much of a "general" meta in the UK? or are there pockets of groups over the country that each have their own little meta?
It fascinates me to compare different epic communities around the globe.

Hey Fudd, blip's right it is a bit hit and miss but surprisingly strong as there are 8 units in the army with fearless and reinforced armour plus frankly terrifying shooting and decent in assaults. Definitely some meta in the UK scene. You can actually see every tournament army played on the epic uk website to get an idea. Interestingly, the all shadowsword list has a bit of a successor in a Necron list comprising almost entirely of monoliths and warriors which won a tournament last month.

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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion Eldar Titan Clan 4.2
PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 8:40 pm 
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Yeah both those lists say, "I don't care if I have friends" ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion Eldar Titan Clan 4.2
PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 9:59 pm 
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I actually feel this whole Overpowered concept is getting blown out of proportion in regards to this list, my personal feeling is it is more a case of people are stuck in there own ways of playing and the meta of their groups is quite consistent, and now that this list that doesn't fit within the norms of alot of peoples play groups is getting more attention and showing up a bit more, they are trying to use the same old lists to play against it. Lists like this are a good injection to improve peoples game play and variation in groups in my opinion. Weather the lists needs tweaking is open to debate, but i think there is certainly a shock factor associated with some of the response to this list. I have played a fair few games with this list in its many renditions and by no means has it been a walk over when i have won, and i have certainly lost my share of games aswell. Just my 2 cents for now, it is a interesting read this thread, and i look forward to following it more as it develops.

Tim_Nz


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 Post subject: Re: Fir Iolarion Eldar Titan Clan 4.2
PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 5:01 pm 
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Tim, definitely some shock of the new but any army in which all/the majority of units are fearless, have 3+ invulnerable saves, move 25+, have loads of macro attacks, built in aa, 1+ activation, hit and run, farsight, and access to one of the best assault units in the game is by its very nature extremely powerful so serious thought needs to be given to balancing out these obvious strengths.

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