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The Horus Heresy: Death of Isstvan III (supplement)

 Post subject: Re: The Horus Heresy: Istvaan III (supplement)
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 1:04 am 
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Cool yes you are right on the naming there. Company had sounded correct when I was writing! In fact, My hazy eyes had read in the structure as three tactical squads, not two tactical and one support squad on page 31, so the extra 1-4 tactical marines are not necessary for the tactical detachments. Going to dive in and correct myself...


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 Post subject: Re: The Horus Heresy: Death of Isstvan III (supplement)
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 6:13 am 
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Update 3)

V0.1 of the list has been uploaded in the original post!
This document will allow playtesting of the list if you wish (remembering it is designed for Legion vs legion play). Next step is to design scenarios, add an intro and guide to using the supplement, and a small amount of info about the legion present on Isstvan III.

Edit: just realised i left trasport details from some Land Raider entrys. Will fix for next release, see anything else funny, let me know.


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 Post subject: Re: The Horus Heresy: Death of Isstvan III (supplement)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:38 am 
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Few things I've picked up so far:

I'm not keen on the min-maxing of certain formations. e.g. +1- 4. Maybe pick a more solid sized up-grade? +2 and/or +4?

Any reason why the Strike Cruiser is cheaper than the standard SC in the Codex list and the Assault Marines are the same price (given you dropped 25 points off everything to compensate the loss of ATSKNF)?

Seems a bit bloated with 38ish individual unit types not including Allies. I can see it's meant for 4K size games but e.g. does every Land Raider type have to be included? Before you add all the unit data in, you might want to have a look at just what duplication there is in the list... i.e "Does this Land Raider X essentially do what this Land Raider Y does?" etc.


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 Post subject: Re: The Horus Heresy: Death of Isstvan III (supplement)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:52 am 
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Achilles could be dropped- useful firefight upgrade but the quad launcher is tits on a bull in a land raider formation. Fun to model, though, will play it out.

Thinking regular dreadnoughts are not that necessary either. Had thought of cutting terminator bodyguards, which are just there as a unit upgrade to a primarch, with fearless and teleport. Could always have teleport as a unit upgrade for primarch, don't know if the bodyguard termies having fearless as well is O.P or not- but, these are supposed to be death inducing primarch units!

I may have screwed the points on the strike cruiser, i will check. That was supposed to be same as codex marines. Assault marines could drop to 150-160, but I'd rate them higher than recon marines in terms of combat effectiveness for a small unit on balance, didn't seem like they needed much of a further point drop. on extra units, could list as terminator 4-6 units 65pts ea and assault marines 4-8 units 40pts ea, black legion list style. either or.

EDIT: Hey Dobbsy, pretty sure you have looked at the work in progress listing half way down page 1. Have a look at the full list on the first post of page one, i have finished entering unit listings, removed the variable unit size for tactical marines and I had fixed that strike cruiser points val there.

Also spotted that Legion Predator with lascannons was not supposed to have FF3+ , copy paste error.


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 Post subject: Re: The Horus Heresy: Death of Isstvan III (supplement)
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:15 am 
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Looking good – I like the design style at use here.
Have you considered replacing the 'Legion Transports' rule with purchasable transports? It'd further differentiate the Betrayal list from the Codex list, and I think offering transports as purchasable upgrades, rather than as a special rule, would make sense in the context of the Isstvan list in particular and the Horus Heresy more broadly.

Regarding Primarchs, I wonder if they would be better as a character upgrade rather than as a dedicated formation. It'll help provide the flavour that people will want, and allow the removal of the Terminator bodyguard (which arguably isn't fitting for all of the Primarchs – Alpharius, Sanguinius, Corax, Angron etc.)

As is, they'll be the first unit hit (by virtue of being WE)– if that's by a MW or TK weapon, all the bodyguards in the world won't help. I'm not suggesting that they need be unkillable; merely that in Epic they should operate like (a particularly fierce) Supreme Commander. I'd say that Primarchs are one of those rare beasts that could justify a new special rule – perhaps combining aspects of the rules you already have (War Engine, fearless etc).

I'd agree that the Land Raider Achilles could be tidied up; I think the anti-armour Land Raiders and anti personnel Land Raiders could be grouped fairly easily, much like Predator Annihilators and Destructors.

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 Post subject: Re: The Horus Heresy: Death of Isstvan III (supplement)
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:30 pm 
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Thanks for the feedback, Apologist.
Im not sure about changing the transports just for the sake of changing them- using the familiar system is ok i think and it acheives the same outcome.

I shall definitely try out a character upgrade primarch as well as the WE, the WE version is based on the idea of the daemon prince in Black Legion. I hope to get some testing done this weekend, but i am currently trying to amass a large amount of figs for some proper play testing to happen.


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 Post subject: Re: The Horus Heresy: Death of Isstvan III (supplement)
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:50 am 
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Update 4)
Army list v0.2 uploaded to OP

Changes:
-Primarch converted to a character
-Centurion added to outrider, land speeder, sky hunter and land raider squadrons
-praetor added to land raider squadron
-removed land raider achilles, terminator bodyguards, regular dreadnoughts
-fixed FF value of Predator to 5+
-reduced cost of Contemptor Dreadnought Talon from 275 pts to 250 pts
-changed costing of terminators and assault marines to 'X-Y unit' format
-fixed various transport capacities
-fixed typos


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 Post subject: Re: The Horus Heresy: Death of Isstvan III (supplement)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:48 pm 
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Nice, sensible changes. Regarding the Primarch upgrade, might this be expanded to Reconnaissance Squad (Alpharius) and Sky Hunter/Outrider (Jaghati Khan)?

Legion Predator Strike Armour Squadron – should the 'Units' column entry read '4 Predator Annihilator or Predator Destructor units'? Also, is it intentional that you can't combine the two types (as in the Codex list)?

Might you consider the addition of the Stormbird transport aircraft? It turns up a hell of a lot more often than the Thunderhawk in the background, and would suit the larger formation sizes of your list.

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 Post subject: Re: The Horus Heresy: Death of Isstvan III (supplement)
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:26 am 
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Yes, can add primarch to those detachments, I don't think it's going to particularly break anything. I don't know that there is any particular annihalator/destructor designation of predators from back in the day, as they have different weapons available. Just wanted a seperation of names.
I will add some of those other units in later on as expansions to lists- I want these lists to follow the heresy campaign, as such, adding some larger units later on in supplement expansions- adding units such as stormbird and imperator titans, adding more admech units in as allies, having admech as a full force later on too- and of course dividing a traitor/chaos list later on too. I am not sure whether to insert the warlord into this list, at the moment I have units in it that are present in the forgeworld campaign book only, but, imo they have kind of retrofit a lot of fluff just to chuck in the models that they felt like making (caestus assault ram, land raider achilles, etc), so I am currently trying to decide whether they retrofit leaving warlord titans out of the 40k list on isstvan III dude to not having made a model for it, or that they have decided that they did't take part in battle there. I need to finish reading all of the background sections on the battles in the book then will decide on warlords at least. There is certainly room for a few things in there.


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 Post subject: Re: The Horus Heresy: Death of Isstvan III (supplement)
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:58 am 
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Cheers rasta, i shall! Bulk playtest minis arriving soon, still scouring ebay, though.


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 Post subject: Re: The Horus Heresy: Death of Isstvan III (supplement)
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:28 pm 
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Fattdex, FYI, I've let the chaps on The Great Crusade (a forum dedicated to Crusade and Heresy-era wargaming) know about this project, so a few people are starting to collect lists built around it.
Combined project log

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 Post subject: Re: The Horus Heresy: Death of Isstvan III (supplement)
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:39 pm 
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I'm really liking this list - great work. (I'm one of Apologist's happy band of renegades over on TGC!)

Question - how come the Artillery Squadron is 0-1?

Oh, and is there a way to include the Breachers? Either as a Tactical Detachment upgrade, or as a Support Detachment? (I would find it quite amusing if they were useful in this list, as they're not that great in 28mm!).


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