Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

So, You Want to be Epic?

 Post subject: So, You Want to be Epic?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:20 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:32 pm
Posts: 406
As requested in the 6mm forum and pursuant to the 'Keeping Epic Alive' thread. My experiences as a new player converted into a guide

=======

http://oi61.tinypic.com/e9hgrr.jpg

So, You Want to be Epic?

Abstract: About 4 months ago I decided to return to a hobby I had given up at age 15 a decade ago: wargaming. I decided to come back to the hobby at the 6mm scale (for reasons I will go into later - see the prelim Qs). This article will document how I went about starting to play Epic Armageddon and how I built and painted my first army, what mistakes I made and what I learned along the way. The intention being to give yousome ideas and pointers on how to go about starting to play the game Epic Armageddon.

Preliminary Qs:
"Wait, what's Epic Armageddon?": EpicA is a ruleset from Games Workshop set in the WH40k universe for playing games at the 6mm scale. It had a whole host of models and supplemental rules and such like produced but is now no longer supported by Games Workshop. Since then playing community has stepped up and now the game is supported by an active playerbase that have playtested and evolved the rules, invented (and playtested, often globally!) new lists and come up with ways of overcoming the issues of out of print models. There is a regular tournament scene as well for those who are interested in that kind of play.

"Why 6mm?": When I used to play as a teenager I always wanted to play massive games, to use all the huge cool toys and all the normal stuff you'd expect from a wargamer. My budget however disagreed. Now that I'm older, gainfully employed and more or less settled I find that the desire for using all those cool toys and massive games remains. But the practicalities (and cost...) make trying to play WH40k Armageddon rules impossible. 6mm as a scale is cheap(ish), quick to paint, easy to store and transport and these qualities combine to allow you to build armies that have unique builds and combinations of units.

"Why Epic Armageddon?": I played WH40k when I was younger, I played the Dawn of War games, I played Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader and the other Wh40k RPGs. I like the setting, the lore, the idiosyncracies and all that so Epic Armageddon was the obvious fit. Consider, also, that in a standard tournament game of EpicA I can happily deploy armoured columns of 10 leman russ, mechanised infantry companies with a half dozen chimera, columns of basilisk etc. all at the same time and still have plenty of points left over for more stuff.

And Now We Begin (Commence beginulation!)
Step 1: Google. The wiki page is a fine place to go to start finding stuff out about the game. I started by just doing google searches and spent a while deciding if this is what I wanted to do, did some image searches for Epic Armageddon armies and the like, got a feel for what the game was about. All that fun stuff. it took me a while to filter away the chaff to get to the juicy stuff inside so I'll save you the hassle.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_(game)

Other good places to go are the EpicUK site (especially if in the UK, but useful for anyone)

http://epic-uk.co.uk/wp/

And the NetEA site

http://www.net-armageddon.org/

Really though, spend the time to read a bit about it. See if it's something you'd be interested in playing, see if you can find a game club near to you that plays or has people interested in playing, if your friends are up for something new.

FAQ!
"EpicUK, NetEA, what?": With Games Workshop no longer supporting the game the fan community stepped in to fill the void. There are several groups out there. The core game rules are identical between the groups, the only real differences are in what army lists are 'official'. The EpicUK ones evolved from the active tournament scene in the UK where faster turnaround and playtesting of armies was desired by the UK community. NetEA lists are more 'global' but fundamentally very similar.

"I found NetEpic, but it looks different to the others?": the game Epic has gone through several editions. The most recently suported one (from GWorkshop) is Epic Armageddon (NetEA, EpicUK) but older editions of the game are also played and kept alive by their communities. NetEpic is a version of the game that predates Epic Armageddon. It's a fine game, but not the one I ended up going with so I can't really speak much about it.

Step 2: Rules. When I started the rules were a morass of confusion - caused by the different groups and editions of the game. Ultimately I ended up going for the version of the game and rules that were the most approachable. And, for me, that is this one

OBSOLETEhttp://onyxworkshop.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/ea-compendium-2-1_rules-only.pdfOBSOLETE

EDIT: the link above is obsolete, please use the two linked below! ;)

It has everything in one place, the game rules and errata combined into one document, a handy FAQ built in and some army lists to use at the back. I don't know if it's the 'best' or whatever other people prefer as their poison but, for me, it was one document, one rules source. Clarity!

Other sources would be here

http://www.net-armageddon.org/page/rules

and here

http://epic-uk.co.uk/wp/rules/

FAQ!
"Ummm...so what if I choose the wrong rules?": Fear not! Despite there being a few different communities playing Epic Armageddon the core game rules are identical across all of them. So the rules I linked above are just as valid as those you'd get from the EpicUK and NetEA sites. Only the army lists will differ and even then the army lists only differ by small amounts and mixing and matching lists from one set of rules with another is common, easy and accepted behaviour. So, as long as you've got Epic Armageddon core rules you can play with anyone else in a game of EpicA and any of the three sources I have mentioned all play EpicA so grab the one that appeals to you most.

"What are the official rules then?": There aren't any...well...Games Workshop no longer supports the game, so there isn't an 'official' supporter of the rules anymore. Instead the fan community uses the version of the rules that was last released by GW before they stopped suporting the game and uses the GW errata and FAQ. Those rules are the ones I linked to above. So, if you're using the rules linked to above you're playing the most 'official' rules an unsupported game line can have. AKA: Any of the links above and you're doing it right! ;)

Step 3: Picking an Army. So decided to take the plunge and give the game a try? I certainly did. I, however, was ignorant of the options and dove straight in to building a full 3000pt tournament legal army. Which was fine...I ended up branching that army out pretty quick to the stated goal of 'at least one of every unit on the army list!'. I chose the imperial Guard Steel Legion by the way. I chose them because the Guard are iconic as using huge volumes of men and armour and that fit my vision of Epic perfectly and the Steel Legion gets to play with essentially all of the toys.

So, on your end you need to choose and army that you'd like to collect and play. I'm not going to do a break down of what's out there but I, personally, ended up using the lists available here because they are clear and legible and have the extremely handy quick reference sheets.

http://epic-uk.co.uk/wp/army-lists/

However. Knowing what I know now I wouldn't have gone straight for the 3000pts the same way. This is just a suggestion from my experience but I would look at starting the game using the Minigeddon rules variant:

https://sites.google.com/site/epicarmageddonlondon/minigeddon

This game uses the exact same rules as the normal game with a few very minor tweaks to make it easier to play at LOWER points totals. rather than 3000pt standard armies it uses 1000pt standard armies. A great way to begin the game is to collect a smaller force and get playing. Hell the 6mm models are cheap enough you could probably pretty easily collect 2 or 3 or more 1000pt armies yourself and lend them to your friends/game club/etc. to use. The Minigeddon page also has some handy quick army lists as examples of just how much stuff you can squeeze into 1000pts (and may well be something good to aim for with your starting purchases if you're lost).

https://sites.google.com/site/epicarmageddonlondon/minigeddon/mini-imperial-guard-lists

So my reccommendation is to build towards the minigeddon scale and then expand your army upwards from there. If you're a fan of the Tale of X Gamers style stories that Games Worksho used to put out the lower cost entry point can be a good way of going about running your own ;)

Here's a sneaky link to a subforum that specialises in Tale of X Gamers for Epic, for inspirational purposes and in no way to spy on other people's pretty pictures...

http://www.taccmd.tacticalwargames.net/viewforum.php?f=119

FAQ!
"But...I can't find a list for my favourite army!?": There are a variety of lists, and a lot of sublists out there but unfortunately not everything has a list yet. However, the fan community is active at inventing and playtesting new ones all the time. A good place to go to see the current buzz of army development is here

http://www.taccmd.tacticalwargames.net/viewforum.php?f=109

Maybe something there will catch your fancy? If not then remember how I said there are different fan comunities for EpicA? Maybe a list you'd like to play is available from the EpicUK page or the NetEA pages (links above, see the rules section)? The core rules are the same and you can mix and match army lists from the different groups without any issues (though check with any tournaments if they have their own rules or guidelines on what you can bring if you plan on attending those)

"I want to play awesome megabattles, not some piddly 1000pt game!": And you can do just that, I did and I turned out alright! I suggest the minigeddon format as an introduction simply because it's quicker to get to playing! Also, remember you're playing Epic Armageddon here, a 1000pt army can still contain a hell of a lot of stuff! For example a 1000pt Steel Legion army I like to use contains 8 valkyries, 80 storm troopers, 60 guard infantry, a command section, 2 commisars and three griffon artillery pieces. If you prefer to go armour heavy how about 6 leman russ, 3 basilisk, 1 baneblade and 1 shadowsword? Hell you could fit in a Titan in something like 60 guard infantry, 1 command section, 7 chimera, a warhound titan, a shadowsword and 4 sentinels?

Step 4: Buying the Models. And here is probably the biggest hurdle to overcome in starting to play the game. Getting the models. Remember how I said that Games Workshop no longer supports EpicA? Well that means they don't produce any models for it either. Dead in the water aren't we? Well. no. The use of proxies is wholeheartedly endorsed by the fan community, endorsed and encouraged. There are plenty of different companies that produce 6mm scale models, many doing 6mm sci fi models that fit right into the WH40k milieu with nary a problem.

I admit to spending several days clicking through Google and looking at what was available, and I was hesitant to make my first purchases, thinking that - despite all the people telling me proxies were ok - what if no one would let me use these models? What about at a tournament if I decided to go to one? Would I be left stuck with stuff I couldn't even use? I was hesitant.

I should not have been. I have seen nothing but support for using proxies (just make sure you tell your opponent what models are what and try to be consistent, like with any proxy).

Remember how I said there were quite a few different companies making 6mm sci fi models? There's also a of of variety out there in what models are available and, while some armies are easier than others to proxy for (*cough*Guard*cough*) you should be able to find something to fit the bill. The links below are where I bought all of the models in my army (except for the Titans, which I got from eBay). I personally used all of these and have had no problems with them, models arrived and were exactly as advertised. So, from a random guy on the internet this is an endorsement for these sites!

Steel Crown Productions
http://www.steelcrowngames.com/

A great site with loads to choose from. The Guild and Khazari models are great for Imperial Guard and Squats (you remember those?) and with a good paint job some of the models could pull duty as Space Marines. The Edenites are a good place to go for Necron core infantry and Immortals and Pariahs.

Hawk Wargames
http://www.hawkwargames.com/collections/united-colonies-of-mankind-ucm

A 10mm sci fi model producer. So bigger than the 6mm scale. However, it works perfectly well for a game of Epic. I used their UCM Air Units to be proxies for my Thunderbolts, Marauder Bombers and Valkyries. More expensive than 6mm producers and not providing anything you couldn't already get at 6mm, but the models are really nice.

Onslaught Miniatures
http://www.onslaughtmini.com/

Producing models that map almost directly to GW stuff but also nice quality, they'll cover you for Tau, Sisters of Battle/Space Marines, a good set of options for Tyranids and on to the Dark Eldar eventually.

Dark Realm Miniatures
http://www.darkrealmminiatures.co.uk/store/home.php?cat=1

Navigate through the categories on the left. The Pax Arcadia make great Imperial Guard, the Skyth a somewhat limited but still good option for Tyranids. Now, at first glance the website looks like something out of the back end of the late 1990s and the exposed code blocks on the home page do not exactly inspire confidence. But their models are good, their payment system works fine and despite the lack of polish to the site it's a good supplier.

EDIT: I am informed by many people that Troublemaker Games are also an excellent source to go looking at too so here you go!
http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/

There's also eBay, if you want to get your hands on the old GW models from when the game was supported. I used eBay to get the titans in my army.

FAQs!
"I'm really really nervous about buying models as proxies, how can I guarantee I can use them?": I'm a guy on the internet so all I can do is share my experience. I can say that I have had no problems using models as proxies. If you are only going to be playing with your friends or a game club then I suggest talking to them, same goes for tournament organisers if you're the competitive type. The Minigeddon lower costs should mean you can get something together and playing quickly and the investment is much lower if you find that others in your area aren't willing to let you use proxies. Other than that your only real option is eBay (which does have a pretty good selection actually if you're willing to dig a bit)

"I've found a supplier who's not on your list, are they any good?": I...dunno? But I do know who might know. Go to this forum and ask away on there. If it's a 6mm supplier there's probably someone on there who's bought from them before and can give an opinion

http://www.taccmd.tacticalwargames.net/viewforum.php?f=7

(also that forum is a great place to go for awesome pictures of 6mm Epic ;) )

Step 5: Playing the Game. So, now you've got the rules (links above!) and got yourself an army (see above!) and want to get a game on! I can give you some pointers, maybe speed you along the learning curve from my experiences from my games.

EDIT: If you're looking for some players this could help you a bit:
http://miniwars.co.uk/players

Game 1: Steel Legion vs Biel-Tan Eldar, 3000pts.
- Activations are king, it's all too easy to fall into a trap of building a few big powerful formations out of the guard list and then running out of stuff to do while your opponent dances around you with loads more formations
- Engagements are decisive
- Pay attention to the 5cm zone of control and especially the 'Intermingled Formations' rule in the Engagement section of the rules. Simple lesson: Unless you know exactly what you're doing never ever ever let the units from two of your different formations get closer than 5cm to each other.

Game 2: Steel Legion vs Blood Angels, 3000pts.
- Some opponents deploy nothing on the board on turn 1
- Some opponents air drop their entire army right on one flank of your army and then proceed to kill it real quick
- Units with the Scout ability would be really damned useful right about now! Never leave home without something that has Scout!
- Sometimes putting all your eggs in one basket can lead to a pair of Marader Bombers blowing up your Landing Craft and all the formations within 5cm with one glorious Critical Hit.
- Unmounted Imperial Guard Infantry in trees are surprisingly tough

Game 3: Steel Legion vs Blood Angels, 1000pts Minigeddon
- Holy shit storm troopers+valkyries are awesome
- I wonder if there's a list with loads of air cavalry...(hint: There is...in fact there are at least 4 lists I've seen ;) )
- Remember that sometimes your opponent will countercharge to engage your firefight units in CC
- The game of Epic revolves around objectives, not killing doodz (though that does help...)
- Unmounted Imperial Guard Infantry in trees are surprisingly tough

Game 4: Steel Legion vs Blood Angels, 1250pts Minigeddon
- Mwahahahah fear my artil...er...damn, artillery vs. space marines is not really that good
- Strategy rating 5 and Initiative 1+ allows you to pull off some crazy stuff...especially if you have activations to spare
- Storm Troopers are good, valkyries are good, combined they're good, I wonder how the troopers would do without the Valkyries? If nothing else it's 200pts for 8 Scouts.

Aaaand...that's it. When I said I was still quite new to Epic I meant it. I've only played the game 4 times. But have built and painted the army below in those 4 months.

Step 6: Next Steps. If you're feeling brave and want to get stuck into the community a good central hub is here

http://www.taccmd.tacticalwargames.net/index.php

Give it a look if you're feeling brave ;)

In Summation

The game rules are simple and straightforward in play with all manner of emergent properties. The game rules are not the difficult part of Epic. It's the arcane combination of different editions, no official support and a fan community keeping it alive and the different fans enthusiasm leading to different groups and presentations of the rules. Hopefully I've cast some light to help untangle the webs and show you how to start, where to go and how to go about finding information out, getting models together and some games under your belt.


Last edited by Scutarii on Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: So, You Want to be Epic?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:19 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:47 pm
Posts: 1696
Location: Wiltshire, UK
Enjoyed reading that, cheers Scutarii.
Really good sweep of the whole hobby.

One of the other major supplier of toys which also happen to make excellent proxies for Epic is Trouble Maker Games.

I too have been on the end of that Blood Angels army. It's certainly a challenge!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: So, You Want to be Epic?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:53 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 2:15 am
Posts: 2579
Location: Australia
great job. well done.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: So, You Want to be Epic?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:25 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 8:54 pm
Posts: 2260
Location: Cornwall
Great army, great article - I'll definitely be pointing some prospective new players to this post soon. Good job!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: So, You Want to be Epic?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:03 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:49 am
Posts: 5568
[shameless advert] Don't forget Troublemaker Games! [/shameless advert]

_________________
http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: So, You Want to be Epic?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:55 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:30 am
Posts: 1480
Location: Örebro, Sweden
zombocom wrote:
[shameless advert] Don't forget Troublemaker Games! [/shameless advert]

Yeah I saw the above company was not mentioned and thought I'd say something, but Zombo was faster. Definetly add these guys to your post/article. It's the go to place for any ork related proxie needs and of course some guard stuff as well. Seems some eldar proxie needs can be filled also They're still expanding as well.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: So, You Want to be Epic?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:44 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 7:31 pm
Posts: 936
Location: Nottingham, UK
This is very comprehensive and very well explained. This is just the sort of thing that is needed to help to alleviate confusion about the different communities in particular. More could be added to the NetEpic section, but in lots of ways I think that's better off as a separate article, so no need to change anything.

It's a shame that the forum doesn't have a home/front page, as this could be posted there. I think that it would be a good idea to integrate this with CS's sticky topic: viewtopic.php?f=42&t=25303

In fact, what has been covered here has probably saved CS a lot of work.

_________________
Soñando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: So, You Want to be Epic?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:41 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 02, 2013 7:28 am
Posts: 295
Location: Seevetal, Germany
Moin,

great job well done!

Ole

_________________
Thousand Sons Army Champion

My pueppchenspieler blog

Building a House Devine Army


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: So, You Want to be Epic?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 4:17 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:19 pm
Posts: 101
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Great post bud


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: So, You Want to be Epic?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 4:28 am 
Purestrain
Purestrain
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 10:43 pm
Posts: 7922
Location: New Zealand
Great article!!

_________________
http://hordesofthings.blogspot.co.nz/


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: So, You Want to be Epic?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:42 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2003 7:27 pm
Posts: 5258
Location: Bristol
Cool post, yay that you're getting back into epic! Just a brief reply at the moment as I need to get other thongs done.

Quote:
Step 2: Rules. When I started the rules were a morass of confusion - caused by the different groups and editions of the game. Ultimately I ended up going for the version of the game and rules that were the most approachable. And, for me, that is this one

http://onyxworkshop.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/ea-compendium-2-1_rules-only.pdf

It has everything in one place, the game rules and errata combined into one document, a handy FAQ built in and some army lists to use at the back. I don't know if it's the 'best' or whatever other people prefer as their poison but, for me, it was one document, one rules source. Clarity!

Don't use that or suggest others to! It's a four years out of date version of the rules with Net-EA lists. Please refer to the Net-EA Tournament Pack 2014 instead, there's a link to download it here - http://www.net-armageddon.org/page/rules

The Tournament Pack contains the rules including the FAQ but also the current lists which have been developed and balanced further.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: So, You Want to be Epic?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 12:58 pm 
Purestrain
Purestrain
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:14 am
Posts: 3416
Location: Western Australia
GlynG wrote:
Don't use that or suggest others to! It's a four years out of date version of the rules with Net-EA lists. Please refer to the Net-EA Tournament Pack 2014 instead, there's a link to download it here - http://www.net-armageddon.org/page/rules

The Tournament Pack contains the rules including the FAQ but also the current lists which have been developed and balanced further.
This situation has already been explained to Scutarii.
I already mentioned that these rules were put up for our local group years ago.
The link to the Tournament Pack has already been shared with Scutarii (indeed, it's in his post above).
They are the best set of rules that can be downloaded at the moment.

Good stuff on the rest of the article Scutarii!

_________________
Just call me Steve.

NetEA Rules Chair
NetEA FAQ

Want to play Iron Warriors in Epic Armageddon? Click HERE
Some of my Armies.
My Hobby site.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: So, You Want to be Epic?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 1:18 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:32 pm
Posts: 406
I'll come back and do some edits to it after your suggestions but just want to point out that the article is written as a story of what I did, so the links are to the things I found on my googling when I knew nothing, not meant to be the best iteration of any given file available.

;)


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: So, You Want to be Epic?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 1:50 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:43 pm
Posts: 2422
Location: UK
Scutarii wrote:
I'll come back and do some edits to it after your suggestions but just want to point out that the article is written as a story of what I did, so the links are to the things I found on my googling when I knew nothing, not meant to be the best iteration of any given file available.

;)

My suggestion then would be to say that you found such a file, but not link to it. Onyx did say he is likely to take it down anyway.

_________________
Kyrt's Battle Result Tracker (forum post is here)
Kyrt's trade list


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net