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What Chapter/Legion Should my Marines be?
pre-heresy world eaters or war hounds 25%  25%  [ 2 ]
pre-heresy imperial fists 25%  25%  [ 2 ]
force comprised of different detachments from different legions in one army 50%  50%  [ 4 ]
Total votes : 8

Further Discussion on "counts-as" and WYSIWYG

 Post subject: Further Discussion on "counts-as" and WYSIWYG
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 6:33 pm 
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So, following my thread discussing using mounted infantry/dragoons to stand-in for rough riders, I started thinking about other changes.

Basically, I ordered a small lot of Space Marine minis from eBay, but frustratingly, the lot included two full tactical detachments and two full devastator detachments (no vehicles), but only contained 3 bases of scouts, 3 bases of terminators, and 3 bases of assault marines (as well as two stands with tactical marines and librarians, and two command squad stands). While I am still looking at buying more, my main concern right now is to try and get a hold of a) some vehicles like rhinos, land raiders, preds, vindicators, etc. and b) get more grunts for my incoming tyranid force (i have a whole whack of gaunts ready to kit-bash into hierdules and dactylis and exocrines et al. but I need more cannon fodder). So in the mean time, i'm trying to figure out how to stretch out the stands I have to form full detachments.

Some ideas I've been considering are stretching the scout squads out to 4 bases, not having 5 per base, but instead adding lots of cover and foliage and stuff to the base to represent that either there are more hiding, or even converting them to look like snipers hiding in rubble and bushes and such, in which case I wouldn't need 5 individual guys per base.

The other idea I've had is to use some extra tactical marines and captains and character figures to fill out the terminator detachment, maybe representing the other veteran marines of the 1st company, just not in terminator armor. So the detachment would consist of around 14 terminators and 6 veteran marines/command/etc. The alternative to this would be to somehow convert some of these extra tactical and command minis to have jump packs and add them to the assault detachment.

Of course, I know that counts-as and such things are common and accepted, I'm just wondering if anyone else has any feedback on these ideas, maybe share some similar things that they have done, or some alternate suggestions to fill out detachments

Also, see the unrelated poll


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 Post subject: Re: Further Discussion on "counts-as" and WYSIWYG
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 6:40 pm 
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I suspect many have done just that to fill out armies, I know my Chaos army has only 4 per stand for marines and 3 for termies (some still with added character), demons, and other specialised units, I've had no problems whatsoever.
I've voted for the first; Warhounds specifically!


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 Post subject: Re: Further Discussion on "counts-as" and WYSIWYG
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 6:44 pm 
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Justiniel wrote:
I suspect many have done just that to fill out armies, I know my Chaos army has only 4 per stand for marines and 3 for termies (some still with added character), demons, and other specialised units, I've had no problems whatsoever.


Yeah, I mean I know the rules say between 3-7 figures per infantry base. Obviously space marine squads are 5 or 10 guys, so I'd like to stick to that if possible. But of course, units like scouts would have more flexibility, especially snipers. And Terminators as well might have more flexibility due to limitations in the numbers of terminator armor suits the force has available. I'm not sure how canon it is, but I could easily see a space marine 1st company detachment made of veterans in both terminator and regular armor. Although I'm not sure about how fluff-friendly it is to have non-termi-armored marines being able to teleport in.

edit: and yeah, warhounds are pretty cool...dat color scheme man


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 Post subject: Re: Further Discussion on "counts-as" and WYSIWYG
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 7:03 pm 
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4 per base looks good, you wont even need to add much extra cover. 3 to a base it will look a bit bare without cover/base details.
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 Post subject: Re: Further Discussion on "counts-as" and WYSIWYG
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 7:06 pm 
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Apocolocyntosis wrote:
4 per base looks good, you wont even need to add much extra cover. 3 to a base it will look a bit bare without cover/base details.
Image


you're right, 4 per base doesn't look that bad. And for pre-heresy, it's not like squads were standard 10 men anyways.

only issue is that almost all the minis are already glued to bases, and they're the regular 5-hole bases. Would mean I'd have to leave an awkward gap in the base instead of evenly spaced like in the pic you posted.


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 Post subject: Re: Further Discussion on "counts-as" and WYSIWYG
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 7:53 pm 
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Imho 4 looks at least as good if not better.

Use a 6mm drill bit to "adapt" the base, and fill recesses with putty.


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 Post subject: Re: Further Discussion on "counts-as" and WYSIWYG
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 11:50 am 
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With the termies I have gone down to 3 a stand. As they are a bit bigger it looks fine. Just add some rocks etc onto your base and it looks good. Or put a banner or two on.

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 Post subject: Re: Further Discussion on "counts-as" and WYSIWYG
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:37 pm 
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I don't like less than 5 infantry / 3 bikes per base.

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 Post subject: Further Discussion on "counts-as" and WYSIWYG
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:19 pm 
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ffoley wrote:
I don't like less than 5 infantry / 3 bikes per base.


Here speaks a man of means ! ;-)


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 Post subject: Re: Further Discussion on "counts-as" and WYSIWYG
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:14 pm 
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My guard infantry are based four to a stand mainly because I'm lazy and it meant painting 20% less guardsmen....

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 Post subject: Re: Further Discussion on "counts-as" and WYSIWYG
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 10:23 pm 
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Space Marine squads start 5 or 10 men strong…

The Scout idea’s great. For the Terminators, it’s less critical because bulkier models can get away with three per stand, but sure, add an apocathery in tactical armor (by which I mean paint a tactical marine white), put a transporter beacon in one of the base holes, a C.A.T. like the one in Space Hulk (a remote controlled rover), a crater, etc. I find it hard to remove plastic figures from those bases without cutting it to pieces, which means you’re starting from scratch when you create your bases with four infantry on them (if you have 15 Termies, that’s three bases with 4 and one with 3).

If you modify the assault marines to look like they’re flying, they’ll be bulky enough to look alright with fewer per stand. It would be difficult to modify tactical marines to match them unless you have the old beaky marines – the later Mk. VII plastic marines are larger.


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 Post subject: Re: Further Discussion on "counts-as" and WYSIWYG
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 11:49 pm 
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thanks for all the feedback guys. Interesting poll result, seems like people want to see a mixed-legion battleforce.

I dunno, I just know that when I first started 40k many years ago, I decided to do Ultramarines of course, but I eventually got bored of the paint scheme, started adding tons of battle damage and conversions to them, which helped, but I was still yearning to paint some different chapters that I thought were cool. I figure the Great Crusade/Horus Heresy setting is a perfect excuse to have a mixed force with units from different legions. Maybe some Warhounds/World Eater assault marines, maybe some Imperial Fist Devastators, maybe some Death Guard Tacticals, or Luna Wolves Terminators, etc.

carlisimo109 wrote:
Space Marine squads start 5 or 10 men strong…

The Scout idea’s great. For the Terminators, it’s less critical because bulkier models can get away with three per stand, but sure, add an apocathery in tactical armor (by which I mean paint a tactical marine white), put a transporter beacon in one of the base holes, a C.A.T. like the one in Space Hulk (a remote controlled rover), a crater, etc. I find it hard to remove plastic figures from those bases without cutting it to pieces, which means you’re starting from scratch when you create your bases with four infantry on them (if you have 15 Termies, that’s three bases with 4 and one with 3).

If you modify the assault marines to look like they’re flying, they’ll be bulky enough to look alright with fewer per stand. It would be difficult to modify tactical marines to match them unless you have the old beaky marines – the later Mk. VII plastic marines are larger.


Yeah, the scouts will probably be the easiest. I have half a mind to put a lump of static grass/flock on the base, and add a plastic or metal tube sticking out to look like a sniper rifle, representing a ghillie suit lol

good point on the models being bigger. 5 per base does look really crowded anyways. And good call on addng a teleport beacon or apothecary.

Still not decided on the bases. To re-base them and change the numbers it would likely mean destroying the old bases. Which means that I need to buy new bases. But on the other hand, I have been thinking about putting them all on round bases anyways because they look more natural. idk. Then again, the line bases are easier to paint, and work better to cover more ground for some units (scouts, etc).


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 Post subject: Re: Further Discussion on "counts-as" and WYSIWYG
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 1:44 am 
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There's an actual type of HH army called a Shattered Legion which is built up from other almost destroyed units so it fits.

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 Post subject: Re: Further Discussion on "counts-as" and WYSIWYG
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 5:07 am 
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jimmyzimms wrote:
There's an actual type of HH army called a Shattered Legion which is built up from other almost destroyed units so it fits.


well I did some reading on the 40k lexicanum, and I found a major battle of the Great Crusade:

The Battle of Gyros-Thravian. Towards the end of the Great Crusade, involved several legions against an Ork warboss and army. Three entire Legions attacked, and they were the Imperial Fists, the Death Guard, and the Luna Wolves. Which is awesome, because those are three of the leading choices for pre-heresy armies to paint. Furthermore, it's canon that the World Eaters/War Hounds routinely lent detachments to other legions to act as mobile reserves, vanguards, or first-wave assault troops. And finally, it's well-known canon that the Legio Mortis was heavily involved with the Luna Wolves in many campaigns.

So I can make a canonically-accurate army consisting of a core of Luna Wolves, Death Guard, and Imperial Fists, coupled with Titans from the Legio Mortis, and Assault detachments from the World Eaters.


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