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Should aircraft contest when landing?

 Post subject: Should aircraft contest when landing?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:19 pm 
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Something that has bugged me a bit about aircraft is that they can contest objectives on the turn that they land.

This is especially the case for Codex Astartes with their ATSKNF and Fearless but it holds true for others as well.

A common thing to see is a player waiting until late in turn 3 holding back air assets and then, once their opponent has burned through some activations, land a flyer deep in a corner of the half of the table - denying Hold the Line. They'll land on their own Blitz if there is room for it. They'll land on an objective to prevent Defend the Flag. They'll land to prevent Take and Hold. It's rare that these vehicles are putting themselves in much danger by doing so as they can just wait for the right moment.

Now, not all of these can be achieved in every game and there is some ability to counterplay these for some factions but it's very frustrating and at times practically impossible.

How can you really stop a Thunderhawk from landing in your half of the table to deny you Hold the Line? Hurting it is tough, it'll land somewhere awkward to reach and burning 2-4 activations to get through ATSKNF to break it is often unfeasible.

---

How much changes if aircraft could only contest AND capture in the next turn?


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 Post subject: Re: Should aircraft contest when landing?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:22 am 
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I'd be up for that. And since its only part if the scenario rules any tournament could adopt it at the organisers discretion.

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 Post subject: Re: Should aircraft contest when landing?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 9:18 pm 
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Me too. It's so annoying that happens way to often when facing marines. It feels really silly and doesn't require any real tactics.


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 Post subject: Re: Should aircraft contest when landing?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:28 pm 
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By happenstance we discussed this after our last game.

My 150 point Tau Orca has often landed to contest an objective on turn 3.
A very big challenge to protect against for so few points. And moderately
frustrating for an opponent.

The Orc flying circus hardly needed the Landa dropping to contest their
own blitz - they had already won convincingly but that nicely short circuited
the conclusion of the game. Airborne Orks vs Dreadnought Marines


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 Post subject: Re: Should aircraft contest when landing?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:21 am 
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Flyers landing to contest are mostly a tactic of last resort here. Ie, things aren't going so well and you're going to lose unless you leave an air asset on the table into turn 4. At that point it's a sitting duck, break it when you're 15cm away and it disappears unless it's fearless.

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 Post subject: Re: Should aircraft contest when landing?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:57 am 
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The one I've felt a bit jarring is the landing craft though. 4DC fearless ATSKNF 4+ RA takes quite a lot to even break it, and in turn 4 having spare formations to do it that aren't manoeuvring for objectives round the rest of the board is an ask. I've seen them last through the whole of the next turn more than once. Expensive though.

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 Post subject: Re: Should aircraft contest when landing?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:58 am 
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Dave wrote:
Flyers landing to contest are mostly a tactic of last resort here. Ie, things aren't going so well and you're going to lose unless you leave an air asset on the table into turn 4. At that point it's a sitting duck, break it when you're 15cm away and it disappears unless it's fearless.
Looking at you, landing craft....

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 Post subject: Re: Should aircraft contest when landing?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:00 pm 
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It's not just to stave off a loss or force a turn 4 though.

In a tournament type event where it's not only win/loss but by how many VPs it can make a difference to who finishes higher up the table.

If it's currently 2-1 in favour of the airborne player it can be easier to make it 2-0 for little effort.


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 Post subject: Re: Should aircraft contest when landing?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:16 pm 
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There are also plenty of situations where it can turn a draw into a win etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Should aircraft contest when landing?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:52 pm 
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Kyrt wrote:
The one I've felt a bit jarring is the landing craft though. 4DC fearless ATSKNF 4+ RA takes quite a lot to even break it, and in turn 4 having spare formations to do it that aren't manoeuvring for objectives round the rest of the board is an ask. I've seen them last through the whole of the next turn more than once. Expensive though.

Yeah on the landing craft it's an expensive commitment and the player will probably have placed objectives based around the landing craft. Doing it with a lander seems a bit more legitimate to me vs token thawk contesting (… and i do both).

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 Post subject: Re: Should aircraft contest when landing?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:13 pm 
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Still better than a solo expended deathstrike missile platform contesting but yeah ... not always fun (immersion breaking). Hate to say it though, it's been one of the core strategies for airmobile Marine lists and without the option, I wonder if this hurts them too much?

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 Post subject: Re: Should aircraft contest when landing?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 4:10 pm 
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lots of AA and air can counter it

if it hits a ground AA, 1 BM

2 lots of TBs or equiv to ping it on the ground and broken


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 Post subject: Re: Should aircraft contest when landing?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2019 2:25 am 
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Reducing A/c to contesting rather than capturing an objective when they land was introduced years ago to answer this particular dilemma. It diminishes the potential impact that A/c have on the game, and has been deemed adequate for a long time when compared to similar strategies like a single unit creeping into the opponents half of the table, or daisy-chaining scouts to claim multiple objectives etc.

The placing of objectives and the initial army deployment is a meta-game in its own right, and sets the tone for the game, opening up these possibilities. Yes it may be “immersion” breaking, but no more than “clipping” or other tactics peculiar to E:A.

Irritating though this may be, it is far from game-breaking IMO as some have already indicated.


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