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War Engines and DTT

 Post subject: War Engines and DTT
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:48 pm 
Purestrain
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Have we ever clarified how WEs interact with the DTT? By the RAW it seems they would be destroyed outright, but it also seems from the discussions I've been able to find that many/most play that it removes 1 DC. This second is also the most sensible to me.

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 Post subject: Re: War Engines and DTT
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:10 pm 
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Quote:
3.1 WAR ENGINE MOVEMENT
War engines follow the same movement rules as any other
unit. War engines that fail a dangerous terrain test suffer a hit
(see the damage rules below).


Quote:
3.2.2 War Engine Damage Capacity
Unlike normal vehicles, war engines are able to absorb more
than one hit before they are destroyed. The number of hits a
war engine can take is shown by its damage capacity. Each hit
that is not saved will reduce the war engine’s damage capacity
by 1 point, and the war engine is only destroyed once its
damage capacity is reduced to 0. Place one Blast marker on the
war engine’s formation for each point of damage that it suffers.


Hope this helps.


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 Post subject: Re: War Engines and DTT
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:33 pm 
Purestrain
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It does. You know, I'd never noticed that first sentence before.

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 Post subject: Re: War Engines and DTT
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:58 pm 
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ight, now how many dice do they roll? :-P

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 Post subject: Re: War Engines and DTT
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:30 pm 
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I've always played it as 1 d6 roll for terrain checks because of the following (highlighted the relevant parts)
Quote:
1.8.1 Dangerous Terrain Test
Roll a D6 when you enter dangerous terrain, or when you start
to move if already in dangerous terrain
. On a roll of 1, the unit
is destroyed with no save allowed, but the formation it is part
of does not receive a Blast marker.


when coupled with this ( from section 3.0 War Engines).
Quote:
War engines include all very large machines, such as Ork
Gargants, Imperial Titans, Imperial Guard Baneblades and
Space Marine Thunderhawk Gunships. Because of their huge
size and awesome toughness, war engines are very different to
other units, and because of this many of the core game rules
are modified when it comes to war engines.


That said, the main difference between a war engine and a
normal vehicle is that the war engine has a damage capacity
(abbreviated DC) that shows how many ‘kills’ the war engine
can absorb before it is destroyed. For example, a Warlord Titan
has a DC of 8, and it therefore takes eight ‘kills’ to destroy it.
For most rules purposes, a war engine counts as being ‘worth’
a number of units equal to its starting damage capacity, so a
war engine’s starting damage capacity is also used to work out
how many dice it rolls in an assault, how easy it is to pin and
so on. This and all of the other modifications to the core game
rules are described in detail as follows.



As non of the modifications in this section or following sections mention rolling 1 d6 per DC then I take it as we stick with the core rule of 1 d6 when entering or start moving when in terrain.


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 Post subject: Re: War Engines and DTT
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:14 pm 
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The rule also says nothing about the unit suffering a (one) hit it says that the unit is destroyed with no saves allowed. If the 1D6 roll is failed.

If the rules are interpret like the 1D6 per unit/RAW wouldn't that also means that a WE that fails it's 1D6 DTT should be destroyed. It seems to me that most people just give them one lost damage point.

Myself I'm not sure which way to interpret this issue.


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 Post subject: Re: War Engines and DTT
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:24 pm 
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check out the initial quote; WE suffer a (single) hit for DTT :)


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 Post subject: Re: War Engines and DTT
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:40 pm 
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Quote:
The rule also says nothing about the unit suffering a (one) hit it says that the unit is destroyed with no saves allowed. If the 1D6 roll is failed.

From the rule book section 3.0
Quote:
This and all of the other modifications to the core game
rules are described in detail as follows.



As section 3.1 states the following,
Quote:
3.1 WAR ENGINE MOVEMENT
War engines follow the same movement rules as any other
unit. War engines that fail a dangerous terrain test suffer a hit
(see the damage rules below).

Why would that be added as a modification to the core rules if the core rule was to be played instead of this modified version.
If the War Engine was to be destroyed as in the core rules then this section wouldn't have been added as it would make no sense to add something that wasn't to be used.

Quote:
If the rules are interpret like the 1D6 per unit/RAW wouldn't that also means that a WE that fails it's 1D6 DTT should be destroyed. It seems to me that most people just give them one lost damage point.

See above.


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 Post subject: Re: War Engines and DTT
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:49 pm 
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Yeah of course. I shouldn't be posting when I'm tired :{[]


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 Post subject: Re: War Engines and DTT
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:07 pm 
Purestrain
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My take on it is that the intro says WE count as a number of units equal to DC. That's the default. Anything when you are counting up numbers of units or there is a "per unit" effect would count DC = # of units. Or, in other words, for any aggregate effects DC = units.

1.8 dangerous terrain checks is written in terms of checking for each individual unit and the results affect that individual unit. *This* unit fails, so *this* unit is affected. Nothing references an effect based on total numbers or per unit or any sort of aggregate effect.

3.1 says WEs follow the same terrain rules as any other unit [singular].

To me, that means WEs should take one check.


To contrast, the Teleport rules aggregate effects. The collection of BMs affects the formation as a whole. There's no individualized *this* unit gets *this* effect. It's one die per unit in the formation, and all are then affected equally.

Obviously, not everyone agrees with those disparate interpretations.


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 Post subject: Re: War Engines and DTT
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:18 pm 
Purestrain
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And to remind people, this is in the 2012 FAQs (work in progress). Anyone who wants to discuss the point is welcome to do so.


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 Post subject: Re: War Engines and DTT
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:24 pm 
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Ginger wrote:
check out the initial quote; WE suffer a (single) hit for DTT :)

Indeed. I was aware before I asked the question that it was a point of contention, thus the smile icon. :whistle

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