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Current Issues

 Post subject: Re: Current Issues
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 2:59 am 
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I feel you with 'nids, but it's difficult to get anywhere there.

I like the simplicity of the Void Shield based rule the Necrons Currently have, and frankly mucking about with any kind of "points" makes it just one step to the madness that is spawning.

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 Post subject: Re: Current Issues
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:54 am 
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they already have the points rule under the "necron" rules... this is just adding another option when they regroup, not some thing they get automatically, it costs the formation a order.


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 Post subject: Re: Current Issues
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:47 pm 
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There is no reason background-wise to give tomb spyders necron. Whatever it is that allows the warriors etc to reassemble, they don't have it. They're there to help others regenerate, not to do so themselves.

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 Post subject: Re: Current Issues
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:44 pm 
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zombocom wrote:
There is no reason background-wise to give tomb spyders necron. Whatever it is that allows the warriors etc to reassemble, they don't have it. They're there to help others regenerate, not to do so themselves.


but all necrons are eventually put back together, that is the whole point of them phasing out. Off the top of my head I remember a BL book that had some people in a necron tomb during a battle that was taking place some where else. It talked about how all the parts and pieces of phased out necrons were phasing in and landing in a huge pile of parts where they were being sorted through put back together.

So this combined with the current way necrons work in Epic (phasing out and porting back on) I think that squads of tomb spyders that port out should be able to repair a destroyed one(1).

- Just another note, would making the necron rule say the squad gets back 1 stand from the original(base) formation at the end of every turn be better/ fairer? or is being able to pick what comes back too critical a thing for players?

and if that dont work ...

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 Post subject: Re: Current Issues
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:33 pm 
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By that logic why not make EVERYTHING get a stand or two back in the end phase. I mean, hey, IG armies reconstitute units after battles and marines induct new recruits so why not? And orks, well they grow out of freaking spores so why not just let them roll a d6 after the battle and on a 5+ they win due to the spores sprouting up and over running the battlefield :)

The story you are referencing is from the Cron rulebook for 40k, page 56 I think, and only talks about the tomb spiders rebuilding the destroyed warriors. However, just because something gets rebuilt after phasing out doesn't give you justification to give it the necron rule. That's something that's limited to specific units in the cron list and shouldn't be on the table as a means of enhancing cron units at will. I personally think that the void shield based rule works quite well for the necron mechanic and I don't think it needs tweaking to add in units that shouldn't have the option according to what we know of how the crons work.

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 Post subject: Re: Current Issues
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:50 pm 
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A , EVERYTHING GET A STAND OR TWO BACK!!?!??! THATS BRILLIANT!!!! ILL GO POST THIS ON EVERY ARMIES BOARD INDEX NHOW!!!!! (this statement reminds me of that 3rd death star fan boy video. mega64 for you all) ...ok now your just being silly.... or is it just me? lol... ok now sireuse-ness-ess.. "limit to specific units" ?? - almost ALL the infantry have it and the only reason they dont all have it is cus its based on fluff from 8 years ago. AND thats fine, I understand you want this list to work like the current necrons do. "shouldn't be on the table as a means of enhancing cron units at will" ... again ?? Im not sure how you can enhance a unit at will with a rule that only works at the end of the turn and only if they lost units to begin with. Are you thinking they can use this at will to spawn bigger units then what they started at? cus I think the nids went threw the same thing and thats a no no.. and marshel,ya,sure, i guess.

other then fluff , what is a reason to NOT give necron to T.S.'s?
-points? they cost the same as immortals and immortals can do it.
-make units too effective? they dont help when they all dead, as well they can ALWAYS be picked out as they are AV's in INF formations(mostly). ALSO (and what im more intrested in helping) if they are in a unit with no other "necron" Necrons.....whats the point?
-some thing blueblue-blue-blue-blue....

and any one who makes all rules based 100% on fluff is asking for fail. AT THAT rate no one would play space marines cus it takes years to train them up to that point!... but when you did get a sqaud they would be awesome! (see movie marines list).
my point is that some times I think you need to look beyond the fluff.


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 Post subject: Re: Current Issues
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:01 pm 
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I'm not adding Necron to the Tomb Spyders because there is no fluff jusification for it, and I don't think the unit needs that big a boost either. People still take them, and if they need a boost there are other possibilities that match the background better.

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 Post subject: Re: Current Issues
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:09 pm 
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On giving AA to Monoliths, it´s a bad idea IMO: making them more powerful, making then even more important in the army (AA+portal+living metal in the same unit). An absolutely no-brainer to take as many as them as possible, and of course, priority target for the enemy for the same reasons.

On Pylons, I was against downgrading the AA shot to just TK(1) in the first place, and I have SM and Eldar (airborne). Anyway, just as an idea, what about some form of gauss flux with multiple AA shots (i.e. 2xAA4+)??

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 Post subject: Re: Current Issues
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:18 pm 
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Quote:
Im not sure how you can enhance a unit at will with a rule that only works at the end of the turn and only if they lost units to begin with

The ability to get that unit back after someone destroys it is an enhancement. If you lose one tomb spider from shooting and then bring that unit back, it effectively means that your opponents shooting has no effect on the unit. Since that isn't possible right now, giving the spider the ability to come back is an enhancement to it's capability to survive.

Quote:
other then fluff , what is a reason to NOT give necron to T.S.'s?

You can't just discount fluff. That tells us what we know about the necrons and by extension how they should play.

Quote:
-points? they cost the same as immortals and immortals can do it.

Your setting up a false comparison here. Just because X unit can do Y and costs the same asn Z unit isn't justification for Z unit to have the same ability as X.

Quote:
-make units too effective? they dont help when they all dead

well, to be fair, giving them necron won't help either if the whole unit is dead.

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 Post subject: Re: Current Issues
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:06 am 
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Quote:
Im not sure how you can enhance a unit at will with a rule that only works at the end of the turn and only if they lost units to begin with

The ability to get that unit back after someone destroys it is an enhancement. If you lose one tomb spider from shooting and then bring that unit back, it effectively means that your opponents shooting has no effect on the unit. Since that isn't possible right now, giving the spider the ability to come back is an enhancement to it's capability to survive.
......................
i think your not getting what I'm saying here, what I'm saying is true if you DO give it necron using the original style of points, and as pointed out, is minor at best as you need to use a order to maybe be able to get 1 back and even less likley to get two back unless you have a entire formation of them(multiple leaders). At that point the use of a formation that just marshals every turn is very low/weak and at best be used to sit on a objective and hope they all dont get kill in one turn - at which point they are all dead, so no come back. if you give it to mixed formations they still stand out as AV's but WITH change they can come back if targeted specificly (abit slowly) as opposed to no change where they get targeted and they dont come back even if they they only ones to die.
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Quote:
other then fluff , what is a reason to NOT give necron to T.S.'s?

You can't just discount fluff. That tells us what we know about the necrons and by extension how they should play.
.......................
again, see above, good fluff dosnt always = good rules.
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Quote:
-points? they cost the same as immortals and immortals can do it.

Your setting up a false comparison here. Just because X unit can do Y and costs the same asn Z unit isn't justification for Z unit to have the same ability as X.
..........................
its just a quick compairison to counter some thing that would have you would have eventualy brought up. And if points arnt used to balance units...... what are they there for? 50 points is a fair amount with the given changes and at the same time 50 points for... say... a immortal is in my view a fair ammount for what there effect on the over all game. visa ve - (or what ever the guy from the matrix TV room says) - these two units should preform in the game at the 50 points efficiant level. right now, 1 or 1, in your list I would take immortals over spiders 70% of the time, with my change it would be closer to 50%-55% (for immortals) of the time. This is just me right now, but I think given the option to test the changes it would be every one.
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Quote:
-make units too effective? they dont help when they all dead

well, to be fair, giving them necron won't help either if the whole unit is dead.
..........................
again I think you read this wrong, I should have been more specific but any way..., - "when they all dead" = spiders


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 Post subject: Re: Current Issues
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:20 am 
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What about an Obelisk variant only available to armoured formations that is 2xAA5+ only (at around 75pts, presumably)?


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 Post subject: Re: Current Issues
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:23 am 
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I'm loathe to introduce new units to a list that is considered close to finished. I'm also very cautious about the idea of going against the design principles of the list and having other AA sources.

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 Post subject: Re: Current Issues
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:31 am 
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zombocom wrote:
I'm loathe to introduce new units to a list that is considered close to finished. I'm also very cautious about the idea of going against the design principles of the list and having other AA sources.
Agreed.
One point though is that giving the Pylon an alternative firing option {1x AA4+TK(1) or 3x AA5+} does fit within those guidlines.

Is there need to see an updated army list soon? (including Walker on the C'tan and any other recent adjustments)

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 Post subject: Re: Current Issues
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:38 am 
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I know both Z and I have poked at the Necron list before regarding a Tomb World list. I think a lot of ideas regarding new units might be better suited for that type of army. I don't exactly have a lot of free time right now but I'd be happy to help things along.

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 Post subject: Re: Current Issues
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:49 am 
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Moscovian wrote:
I know both Z and I have poked at the Necron list before regarding a Tomb World list. I think a lot of ideas regarding new units might be better suited for that type of army. I don't exactly have a lot of free time right now but I'd be happy to help things along.


I would support this idea. one thing right now tho that comes to my attention is the soon(rumors point to November) to be released new necron codex. would it just be easier to shut off the current necron list and do new (variant) ones when that comes out? that way we start with a fresh slate and no ones stepping on others toes cus its all new.


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