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Living Metal feedback

 Post subject: Re: Living Metal feedback
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 1:26 pm 
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I had no problems with them going after my Pylons, they were set up outside of intermingled range but mutually supporting infront of the Blitz. It was a good plan and worked so far as the first Pylon was wiped out. Combination of Teleporting BM, loss of one stand, the second Pylon shooting at them and an engagement out of the Tomb Complex by a formation with a Pariah wittled them down to just the Lord who was killed in the following turn as he failed to rally.


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 Post subject: Re: Living Metal feedback
PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:05 am 
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Further game last night (EUK Necrons vs EUK BL) - MW shots and CC were neglated before they could have an impact. Game ended up with Living Metal effectively being a Reinforced Armour Save. My dice were bang on all game - Engagements won by +9 & +10.


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 Post subject: Re: Living Metal feedback
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:39 pm 
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I'll have a battle report with specifics later but in a recent game with this army against me using AMTL, using the current approved list, I tracked the living metal rule effects whenever it came up. 2 Necron formations were saved from anhilliation during the game purely because of living metal as it is now, one was the BTS. We rolled the extra saves in each case and it wasn't enough. That said the TK hits were coming from an Imperator so it was pretty much worst case scenario as far as TK is concerned. The Necrons lost the game but that was mainly down to failing to rally a lot of off board formatons on turns 1 & 2.


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 Post subject: Re: Living Metal feedback
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:58 pm 
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Looking forward to it! Any opinion on what you feel is the "right" rule? Did they feel to solid with the current rule, or would they have been too squishy with the new rule?


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 Post subject: Re: Living Metal feedback
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:23 pm 
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Honestly, when you're sucking up 5 MWTK(D3) in one go, along with other guns, you should be anhillated so the newer/EUk style feels a better fit to me. TK isn't hugely available to most armies so that part of the newer rule shouldn't impact too hard in normal/tournament play IMO, but only getting one save Vs the more widespread MW is a bigger issue for me, I'll really need to test it more.

Having had a look at the photos from the game, my notes are at home, it looks like a FM of 3 monoliths & 3 obelisks took a full 5 Tk hits along with a 13 BP barrage and a couple of hits from AT... 2 survived, very broken but alive.


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 Post subject: Re: Living Metal feedback
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:27 pm 
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Just remember that Monoliths aren't affected by the change vs TK - you only roll extra TK damage vs war engines.


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 Post subject: Re: Living Metal feedback
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:31 pm 
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You're right there, silly me, it was all rolled theoretically anyway so no adverse affect to the game reardless. In which case I need some more War Engines to test.


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 Post subject: Re: Living Metal feedback
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:40 pm 
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Okay, uh, hello all! Since I've been on a Necron kick during my games of Epic of late, I've had a couple of games with them and, after reading a few threads about this proposed rule change, I have come to a conclusion. If the meta and sense of the game with Necrons at the moment is that Monoliths, their main tank and the thing from which more Necrons are brought onto the table, are not worth firing at because breaking them and even destroying 2/3 of the 'Liths won't really do much, then I think that the issue goes much deeper than simply nerfing Living Armor. Now, I can't claim to be an expert and I don't have much of an idea as to what might help; either improving the Monoliths offensively so that destroying them is its own reward, in the denial of firepower to the enemy, or perhaps in something that was suggested in one thread, broken portals apply a blast to formations using them.

One thing I thought of, and I have no idea how feasible it is, would be to limit you from moving more than one formation on board per Portal. So if you have say, nine Monoliths, which seems to be about how many people bring, and is what I've been bringing, you can bring up to nine formations onto the table per turn. Thus, managing to get the first shot off at a formation and taking out one or two portals would deny the enemy a formation or two that turn, limiting their ability to swarm out.

I guess it just seems wrong to me that Monoliths, of "THE MONOLITH! WE DESTROY THAT AND THIS IS OVER!" fame being outright ignored has become a thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Living Metal feedback
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:57 pm 
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Warpeace wrote:
One thing I thought of, and I have no idea how feasible it is, would be to limit you from moving more than one formation on board per Portal. So if you have say, nine Monoliths, which seems to be about how many people bring, and is what I've been bringing, you can bring up to nine formations onto the table per turn. Thus, managing to get the first shot off at a formation and taking out one or two portals would deny the enemy a formation or two that turn, limiting their ability to swarm out.


Thanks for the input! There is already a limit, in that each portal can only be used once per turn. Given that it's effective to engage out of one portal and consolidate into another Necron players will already bring enough portals to have sufficient redundancy. Opponents can still cut down on the effectivness of portals without crippling the Necrons by destroying some of them, as that will often leave enough portals on the board for the Necrons to get out, but not enough to get off the board in the same activation.

Currently my impression is that the big issue with Necrons isn't really if they're overpowered or underpowered, but rather that there's such a massive difference between playing against opponents that haven't faced them before and opponents that are wise to their tricks.


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 Post subject: Re: Living Metal feedback
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 2:45 pm 
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my experience is that EUK living metal is enough to deter my shooting at them with anything other than massed AT or preferably MW, so I generally don't bother wasting precious volcano cannon or plasma blastgun shots at them, but would gladly sustain fire with a Russ company or something with similar amounts of AT firepower....

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 Post subject: Re: Living Metal feedback
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:14 pm 
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Ulrik wrote:
Thanks for the input! There is already a limit, in that each portal can only be used once per turn. Given that it's effective to engage out of one portal and consolidate into another Necron players will already bring enough portals to have sufficient redundancy. Opponents can still cut down on the effectivness of portals without crippling the Necrons by destroying some of them, as that will often leave enough portals on the board for the Necrons to get out, but not enough to get off the board in the same activation.


Ahhh, my bad. I understood the wording of the portals as each can only be used to either go offboard or onboard, but that a single portal set to onboard could be used by as many formations as you wanted. Thanks for letting me know!


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 Post subject: Re: Living Metal feedback
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 9:31 am 
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now we have a new AC, I thought it worth sharing my LM experiences, and this thread was the best place to do that, so apologies for the threadomancy!

played a 3k game last night, Biel-Tan vs NetEA necrons (mostly to give mike some practice before the euro GT)

I took

2x falcon formations with firestorms
2x mounted guardians
Storm Serpent
Void Spinner
2x ranger formations, one with an extra stand
Warp spiders with exarch and autarch
Revenants

Mike took

3x necron warrior formations with extra gubbins
3x 3 monoliths
6 obelisks
2 pylons
C’tan (deceiver)

I can’t give an activation-by-activation breakdown as we were pushed for time and the idea was really for mike to practice with the necrons, however I have a few thoughts based on the outcome of this game

Turn 1 my revs doubled and hit the rightmost monolith formation although they got 7 macro hits, all were saved by LM (worth noting that all would have died using EUK LM) I then retained and moved the storm serpent up, then engaged the monolith formation with warp spiders, scoring 7 hits and actually wiping them out

Turn 2, my revs sustained fire on the second formation of monoliths, scoring 7 hits again, all of which were saved, and again using EUK rules they would have been wiped out… my warp spiders engaged the third formation and with another 7 hits killed a single monolith, my guardians engaged the formation and failed to kill any more monoliths

Turn 3, my second guardian formation engaged the deceiver who saved all 9 hits although lost the roll off and broke

Mike ended up with a 3-0 win (TSNP, BTS, Blitz) on turn 3

Obviously I made several mistakes in this game, it being only my third game using eldar, but I found LM to be ridiculously potent, if we’d been using the EUK LM rules then the game would have been quite different I feel as I would have cut mike’s portals down and severely reduced his options to decide on engagements, as it was, my 650 point revenants killed a total of 2 stands of infantry (in an engagement) and their normally potent shooting was completely wasted in this game (my fault for using them aggressively I suppose…. I could have bounced them around shooting at formations of infantry instead)

Mike had unbelievable luck in his saves, although I consistently rolled lots of hits on the monoliths so it probably cancels out

Overall, I felt pretty helpless, I tried chucking lots of shots at the monoliths and apart from the early engagement luck, everything bounced off which was disheartening, although not unexpected or even that strange….

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Last edited by kyussinchains on Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Living Metal feedback
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:32 am 
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Thanks for your input Kyuss :)

We have discussion going on now in two threads about this topic. I just wrote a long post on living metal over in the Sautekh list thread that I'd like to point you towards. My post is found here.


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 Post subject: Re: Living Metal feedback
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 10:40 am 
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A bit of threadomancy here, but just to check - with the NET-EA Necron living metal rule, are you in effect not affected at all by Macro or Lance weapons? The TK effect is clear, but Macro seems a bit vague (i.e. you get your reinforced roll, but do you get the first save?)


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 Post subject: Re: Living Metal feedback
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 2:48 pm 
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& just chipping in on the question at hand, the TK damage being reduced to 1 from dX in the NET-EA rules overall i think is quite positive on the whole - i'd probably never look to take a necron war engine at any points level under the E-UK rules for it, as they're quite vulnerable to TK weapons given they have no shields, and the bigger ones can't teleport (and are quite slow to boot, what with a slow base speed and no ability to march). On NET-EA i'd possibly consider one at 4k at the very least!


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