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NetEA Blood Angels V3.0 list

 Post subject: Re: NetEA Blood Angels V3.0 list
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:41 am 
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I dislike the one-shot missiles on the storm ravens intensely, I think I'd rather add in the hurrcane bolters and twin HB, and reduce the missiles to a single AT4+ shot but remove the one shot rule to keep them useful throughout the game.... I understand this steps on the toes of the grey knights somewhat, I think we should test them out either way

You've not played enough Guard then.

Thanks for the feedback

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Blood Angels V3.0 list
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:16 pm 
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Tiny-Tim wrote:
You've not played enough Guard then.


only every week for ~2 years ;) that was pretty much enough for me....

but seriously vultures have massive range, are AT2+ so a credible threat to even very heavily armoured stuff, and are scouts so can start off garrisoned on overwatch, often in very uncomfortable places, that is their niche and I'd rather the marines have a CAS gunship type unit than one that delivers a payload at extreme range then flaps around trying not to die.... one of the complaints earlier in the thread was that storm ravens were essentially better vultures

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Blood Angels V3.0 list
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:23 pm 
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They should be assault monsters, not playing like vultures. If you're going to play at being Solomon and split the proverbial child in half, then dropping the one-shot is a good idea and just make it a regular missile attack. I'd not be concerned with stepping on the GK's toes because 1. it's less tested and far newer a list than the BA, 2. it's already a custom named variant there so it doesn't matter, 3. we probably should just make this a custom variant here too as it really seems this unit, more so than most, is really used in a force specific tactics manner (assault transport vs a gunship) and we might want to make that explicit [shrugs] 2 cents.

edit: gunslinger actually made them match the BA list in his last release of the GK list so not even an issue now

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Blood Angels V3.0 list
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:50 pm 
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CaptPiett and I haven't found them worth their points in our games. The last one or two playtests we've played them with these stats at 50 points each when they're replacing rhinos, and 275 for a formation of 4:

Code:
Storm Raven    AV    35cm    5+    6+    5+
Assault Cannons             30cm      AP4+/AT4+
Twin Heavy Bolter           30cm      AP4+
2x Blood Strike Missiles    45cm      AT5+, SS
2x Hurricane Bolters        (15cm)    Small Arms, EA(+1)

Transport (2 inf, 1 dread), Planetfall, RA, Skimmer


They're more of a Vulture/Valkyrie combination. They lack the long range AT hitting power of the Vulture, so you want to get up and close with them like the Valkyrie. They benefit from the better armor and the FF/support bump, which I think makes them play more marine-y.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Blood Angels V3.0 list
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 2:03 pm 
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jimmyzimms wrote:
gunslinger actually made them match the BA list in his last release of the GK list so not even an issue now


Don't not change stats based on the GKs. There was similar discussion in the GK thread that the Stormtalons are an underperforming unit. I brought them in line with Dave's proposed changes so that we'd have two groups with the same goal working towards the same end, plus it helps with consistency across lists. If there's a new stat line we want to try for the ST, I'll make a quick edit to the GK list to much it, since the list has only been up for 8 hours or so.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Blood Angels V3.0 list
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 2:38 pm 
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Dave wrote:
CaptPiett and I haven't found them worth their points in our games. The last one or two playtests we've played them with these stats at 50 points each when they're replacing rhinos, and 275 for a formation of 4:

Code:
Storm Raven    AV    35cm    5+    6+    5+
Assault Cannons             30cm      AP4+/AT4+
Twin Heavy Bolter           30cm      AP4+
2x Blood Strike Missiles    45cm      AT5+, SS
2x Hurricane Bolters        (15cm)    Small Arms, EA(+1)

Transport (2 inf, 1 dread), Planetfall, RA, Skimmer


They're more of a Vulture/Valkyrie combination. They lack the long range AT hitting power of the Vulture, so you want to get up and close with them like the Valkyrie. They benefit from the better armor and the FF/support bump, which I think makes them play more marine-y.


I think 275pts is pretty damn cheap for that level of firepower and utility.... I happily pay 275pts for predator annihilators, given the increased speed, resilience and utility (very decent AP shooting) I think my opponents would be pretty annoyed with them at 275.....

I'm of a mind to split the difference, use the stats in this post, except to give them a single AT4+ bloodstrike missile with no single shot, and cost them at 300

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Blood Angels V3.0 list
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 3:14 pm 
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I didn't think they were that bad, but I was only using them as upgrades. The 275 was extrapolated from there.

The missiles are just Krak missiles, twined they make sense at AT5+ and fit the pattern for EA weapon stats. Going to AT4+ with no single shot makes for nearly a Falcon's AT with better initiative, armor, FF, transport and SR. I think 300 would be too cheap in that instance. I'd try them at a single AT5+ with no SS at 300.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Blood Angels V3.0 list
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 3:32 pm 
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agreed, let's test at that (I was not aware they are just Krak missiles)

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Blood Angels V3.0 list
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:03 pm 
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okay let's go with that then :) unfortunately I've either lost or deleted my word file for the list, I'll get an updated version published on tuesday

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Blood Angels V3.0 list
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:04 pm 
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where did your post about typhoon launchers go Dave?

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Blood Angels V3.0 list
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:05 pm 
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Deleted it, I was looking at the Talon.

The missile is actually longer range now, looks like. 72" as opposed to 48". Upping them to 60cm or 75cm would fit in with 40k, but I don't think players would be using them to get infantry into assaults. I'm fine at 45cm AT5+ at 300.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Blood Angels V3.0 list
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:42 pm 
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Agreed

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