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Codex Astartes v2012

 Post subject: Re: Codex Astartes v2012
PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:45 pm 
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In all SM (and CSM) armies it's possible to add any number of Land Raiders Ginger (1-4). After these and Razorbacks have been added then Rhinos are.

This is obviously a possibility you have missed, but it's not a new change (it's been allowed since EpicA started) and it's not up for discussion.


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 Post subject: Re: Codex Astartes v2012
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 12:00 am 
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Land Raiders were not originally available as an upgrade to Tacticals. In the more recent Compendium lists this has been included as a 1-4 upgrade, though not in the E-UK list. Also, note that my highly personal suggestion was not to remove the upgrade, rather that sufficient LR are provided to transport the entire formation.

Options that constrain players and options are always more unpopular by their nature, but that should not preclude discussion per se.


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 Post subject: Re: Codex Astartes v2012
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 12:53 am 
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I'm aware Tacticals oddly missed out on the Land Raider upgrade originally, though sensibly that was rectified some time ago. I'm still unclear as to your thinking for why existing precedents should be gone against and the formation forced to all have Land Raiders.

The Land Raider upgrade isn't new - it's always been in SM and CSM lists as 'add up to 4' (it's like that in all the rulebook lists, the Epic-UK lists and the Net-EA lists) and since that works fine the same upgrade was given to Tacticals too. It sounds like you didn't notice the option and are concerned by it, but all the rest of us have been using it for many years. I've fielded Tacticals with a single Land Raider dozens of times and found it fine.


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 Post subject: Re: Codex Astartes v2012
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 10:25 pm 
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Oh I am perfectly aware of the possibilities of the 1-4 upgrade and of its history, that Land Raiders were intended to be available as an upgrade. I am also aware that adding a single LR is "fine" and not unduly unbalanced. I am merely suggesting that logically it is a little 'odd' to give armoured transport to only part of a formation.

I might add that this is also a little inconsistent. If transport is provided for Terminators, then the entire formation is put in several Land Raiders. Other infantry formations may have different forms of transport, but the entire formation is given Bikes, Land Speeders, Drop Pods, or Rhino style transport, or the entire formation is put in a THawk.

My point is that the wording in the Land Raider option allows the transport types to be mixed, which I feel is not entirely appropriate, that is all.


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 Post subject: Re: Codex Astartes v2012
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 2:15 pm 
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The way I see it the Landraider is a little bit transport and a little bit support so I'm fine with the current state when you can take just one for protection and firepower.
I don't mind mixing transportations, sometimes the boss needs something nicer to ride in :) Guessing its not very Codex-like but it doesn't bother me.


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 Post subject: Re: Codex Astartes v2012
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 3:15 pm 
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Actually that's the veterans attached to the formation so we didn't have to shoehorn them in as a unit in EA :)

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 Post subject: Re: Codex Astartes v2012
PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 7:23 am 
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jimmyzimms wrote:
Actually that's the veterans attached to the formation so we didn't have to shoehorn them in as a unit in EA :)

That's also your argument to have +2 Tactical Stand Upgrade added to the Tactical Formation. ;D

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 Post subject: Re: Codex Astartes v2012
PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:46 am 
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I can see where Ginger's coming from here – the Codex Astartes list is characterised by being fairly constrained, with few options in general (compared to orks, for example), in order to keep the formations tightly focussed and forcing the player to pick particular 'ready-made' (Codex-adherent, in-universe) formation types.

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 Post subject: Re: Codex Astartes v2012
PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 11:24 am 
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uvenlord wrote:
Guessing its not very Codex-like but it doesn't bother me.

Mixed formations actually are very codex like and normal for Space Marines.

Ginger wrote:
If transport is provided for Terminators, then the entire formation is put in several Land Raiders.
...the wording in the Land Raider option allows the transport types to be mixed, which I feel is not entirely appropriate, that is all.

Well yes, Terminators can't mix transport like other Marines because Terminator armour is too bulky to fit into a Rhino or Razorback. If you want them mechanised it has to be Land Raiders.

You're wrong on it not being appropriate Ginger. To give a relevant quote from the Forge World Imperial Armour book on space marines: 'Space Marines commonly use combined arms and ad-hoc formations. The heaviest armour leads the way...Rhinos are protected behind the leads units" There are several pages detailing formations/tactics used in particular battles with diagrams and many of them show 1-2 Land Raiders leading the way to draw the fire with Rhinos advancing behind them for cover, which is basically what having the mixed transports reflects in the SM list.

Mixed types of transport are common in epic too - SMs are already mixing Rhino and Razorbacks, Eldar Aspects Wave Serpents and Falcons, Cultists Chimera and Land Transporters, Orks battlewagonz, gunwagonz and forts, Chaos Space Marines Rhinos and Land Raiders, ect.


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 Post subject: Re: Codex Astartes v2012
PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:26 pm 
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Np, and thanks for the explanation. While I am very happy to accept your explanation, I merely pointed out that it seemed a bit illogical to me for Marines to mix the different types of transport (Codex or Chaos). IMO it would seem much more logical to equip the entire formation with the same transport so that the troops could all operate in the same manner. However I am also assuming that their operational orders are issued at the formation level rather than by unit (squad). To be fair, this level of detail is where E:A tends to break down, and I quite accept that my views may not match what the FW 'fluff' says (or indeed any other source) about Marine operations.

Lets just leave it there shall we, not least because my foibles will have absolutely no effect on the lists :D


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 Post subject: Re: Codex Astartes v2012
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 12:46 am 
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Hey guys,

Just checking if any marine lists include the option for scouts to use landspeeder storms, i cant find any and would like to use them, mostly for fluff reasons. ;)

Cheers,

Majorskiddies


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 Post subject: Re: Codex Astartes v2012
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 1:10 am 
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For tournament play? None right now approved but the Raven Guard list has them as a formation upgrade. They're currently in Development and could use help testing to go Approved.

Nothing stops you from using them in friendly play.

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 Post subject: Re: Codex Astartes v2012
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 9:58 am 
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Any Marine lists using Sicarans apart from the Heresy ones? Don't mind if it's development or official?

D.


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 Post subject: Re: Codex Astartes v2012
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 12:35 pm 
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Nope.

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 Post subject: Re: Codex Astartes v2012
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 12:59 pm 
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Cool! Wonder if there is a demand to include all the new toys in a 40k Marine list. Thinking Storm Chickens and stuff like that.

D.


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