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Codex Marines - the big discussion

 Post subject: Re: Codex Marines - the big discussion
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:37 am 
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jimmyzimms wrote:
Marines get Rhinos for free already. So you're saying, if I'm reading this right, that you csay have a tact formation and ditch your Rhinos but get a free Dred automagically?


Yep. They could choose from air insertion (but pay a premium for Thunderhawks), rhino transports or drop pods (included in price/"free") or a dread. Each has their advantages, at least to this slightly deranged brain.


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 Post subject: Re: Codex Marines - the big discussion
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:23 pm 
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I have been pondering on swapping out 1-3 tacs for various Marine AV depending on type and quantity, as an alternative to upgrades. This would be forming the equivalent of a 'heavy weapons' platoon which would be more brittle, though it would also have other advantages. Perhaps
  • 1 tactical unit for a Dreadnought, Vindicator or Predator D. (0 - 2 per formation)
  • OR. 3 tacticals for 2x Land Raiders


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 Post subject: Re: Codex Marines - the big discussion
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:48 pm 
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Yep, thats the kind of thing im talking about.

Same principal as my platoon idea for guard.


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 Post subject: Re: Codex Marines - the big discussion
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:07 am 
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Ginger wrote:
I have been pondering on swapping out 1-3 tacs for various Marine AV depending on type and quantity, as an alternative to upgrades. This would be forming the equivalent of a 'heavy weapons' platoon which would be more brittle, though it would also have other advantages. Perhaps
  • 1 tactical unit for a Dreadnought, Vindicator or Predator D. (0 - 2 per formation)
  • OR. 3 tacticals for 2x Land Raiders

Would this be for variant SM Chapter lists or for the Codex Asrartes List?
How does the Codex Astartes list fare in tournament play?

Do we need changes for such a long established list?

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 Post subject: Re: Codex Marines - the big discussion
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:18 am 
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I believe my statements have been pretty clear on ^that^ matter in this thread. ;D

Baring some pretty conclusive test data I'm very unlikely to allow anything to happen. It's however great theory for new lists so this thread and discussion has great potential for insight. For instance, while in Guard land it's still holds, there's an interesting build concept being chewed on in fan-list for the Heavy Mech in doing away with upgrades and instead going with modular formations where the options are built in. Their experiences there will serve us well in the greater community I suspect.

Anyhooos... [strolls back outside]

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 Post subject: Re: Codex Marines - the big discussion
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:05 am 
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Oh totally agreed Jimmy, this would not be sensible for the core codex Marine list not least because it needs to remain a constant for testing purposes. The above might just work for sub lists that are intentionally 'ground-pounding' in nature, though the main issue becomes whether the spare points made available in this way increases the number of activations too much. . .


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 Post subject: Re: Codex Marines - the big discussion
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 5:16 am 
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Space Marines do always seem to have the most interesting discussions! It's a good thing they're not as rare in EA as they're supposed to be in the background :P

With all these ideas, why not create a new list that starts off exactly the same as the current one and then modify it? Ortron and Blip's (and many others'!) ideas about more modular Space Marine lists, or the ideas of sensible differences from the original, could be incorporated there. Just because there are specialist Space Marine lists doesn't mean that people couldn't work on a generalist list if they would like to—perhaps, to use the metaphor, one of the horses can be reigned in, even if all the others are now free with the Silver Brumby? The specialist lists would inevitably be better for their particular playstyle anyway, so the design philosophies are not completely overlapping, and the original Marine list remains safe.

One question is, "Why not just house rule it for your own games?" But (like with all the crazy new ideas we post on here :P) here, you can get everyone contributing good ideas. There are lots of erudite EA sleuths, so why not make use of some of their expertise and maybe make something everyone can enjoy?

I suppose one issue with adoption of new Marine lists is the prestige of the original list: it will always have that veneer post-official support but having expert EA people here make comments on new lists gives them a lot more prestige, too.

An interesting discussion, nonetheless. Space Marines seem to embody some of the most iconic mechanisms of EA!

As an aside on activations, it would be nice if there was a strategic way to build activations into a list that didn't rely on the suspicious 'more units = more easy to control them' axiom... it seems such a shame that so many options are limited by that caveat! But this has been discussed elsewhere, and isn't really a Space Marine problem!


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 Post subject: Re: Codex Marines - the big discussion
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:50 pm 
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Thanks Jimmy/Ginger. That was what I was hoping you would say.

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