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Codex Marines - the big discussion – fluff split

 Post subject: Re: Codex Marines - the big discussion – fluff split
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 11:29 pm 
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Incidentally in EW there's a special ability called tactical genius which grants boosts to the strategy roll. Seems fitting for a space marine captain, veteran of a thousand battles yada yada yada

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 Post subject: Re: Codex Marines - the big discussion – fluff split
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:35 am 
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jimmyzimms wrote:
Incidentally in EW there's a special ability called tactical genius which grants boosts to the strategy roll. Seems fitting for a space marine captain, veteran of a thousand battles yada yada yada
jimmyzimms wrote:
And wreck all external balance or we going to take aspects and nerf amour and get rid of triple retains? After that, orks! ;)
There's probably a need to of had more granularity in the dice as 1/2 hits is a wee bit weak. The problem is always that they are generalists and they don't work well in EA.
It works though tacticals are probably worth a free or discounted captian.

Good points Jimmy, though in this gratuitously fluffy exercise, the obvious answer is to adopt the same approach as for the Harlequins.

In the post-Heresy fluff, the marines are only deployed as the mobile strike force of the guard. Basically these uber troops should only form a portion of an IG list - less than 50% of the army points total. Where the marines have more formations the supreme commander is a marine, otherwise the SC is an IG chap. And the upgraded Terrminators only get to play when at least half a marine company is in the field (whatever that means :D ) so in practice they would only hit the table very rarely, in very large games of 5000 points and more.

Finally, since the current marine unit and formation costs are balanced, perhaps the upgraded Tacticals would be roughly 75-85 each or 450-500 points per basic formation, while the "uber" (and very rare) Terminators would be at least 100-125 each, also 400-500 points per formation. We can keep the transport options, other upgrades and capabilities the same and we're good to go . . .

As a "fun" list, not a competition one ;D


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 Post subject: Re: Codex Marines - the big discussion – fluff split
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:41 pm 
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Might as well just use the crusade list from chroma. It's incredibly entertaining and thematic, terrible external balance. Was my go-to for custom scenario play

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 Post subject: Re: Codex Marines - the big discussion – fluff split
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:31 pm 
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I think Inquisitor was the only game where Space Marines were quite as mighty as the fluff often makes them out to be. They were absolutely terrifying in that, as I remember.

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 Post subject: Re: Codex Marines - the big discussion – fluff split
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 3:32 pm 
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yes...yes they were absolute murder machines :D

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 Post subject: Re: Codex Marines - the big discussion – fluff split
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:09 pm 
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So Jimmy could you post the link to Chroma's list for comparison.


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 Post subject: Re: Codex Marines - the big discussion – fluff split
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:08 pm 
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Ginger wrote:
So Jimmy could you post the link to Chroma's list for comparison.

Pretty sure he means the Saranse expansion crusade list from the old compendium
http://www.net-armageddon.org/sites/def ... -01-14.pdf

(Page 68 of the PDF)

It does seem quite a fun "imperial all stars" list.
Basically imperial guard core formations but support formations can be guard or astartes.


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 Post subject: Re: Codex Marines - the big discussion – fluff split
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 1:42 am 
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Interesting list, though still keeps the standard stats for the marines, so presumably we wouldn't see many Tactical formations . . .
:)


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 Post subject: Re: Codex Marines - the big discussion – fluff split
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 2:48 am 
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Movie Marine do need an epic codex. Maybe we can pretend the super-powered Squat Overlords were always just a precursor to these? :D


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 Post subject: Re: Codex Marines - the big discussion – fluff split
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 6:53 pm 
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Should terminators really be available in dedicated formations? Or just a few sprinkled in with tacs?

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 Post subject: Re: Codex Marines - the big discussion – fluff split
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 12:36 am 
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Ideally, they should be both. Like Vindicator tanks, they came come attached to other squads as reinforcement where necessary, though in all but the most dire of circumstances they might more commonly be deployed as a small formation or reinforcement of 'mere' veteran marines.


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 Post subject: Re: Codex Marines - the big discussion – fluff split
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 1:31 am 
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Different troop quality is one element of more standard rules formats that is frustratingly absent in E:A. Unfortunately the rules mechanics do not have quite enough granularity to represent this sensibly, other than the through the use of different troop types which are actually an admix of weapon and armour rather than capability etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Codex Marines - the big discussion – fluff split
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 12:48 pm 
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TSKNF is a fair approximation of troop quality, but as you say, it lacks granularity. Personally i think different rates of shedding BMs dependent on quality would be a good idea in EA.

iirc, the Exodus Wars rules introduced something similar(?)


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 Post subject: Re: Codex Marines - the big discussion – fluff split
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 12:52 pm 
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You're probably thinking of the Competency mechanic.

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 Post subject: Re: Codex Marines - the big discussion – fluff split
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 4:22 am 
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Ginger wrote:
Different troop quality is one element of more standard rules formats that is frustratingly absent in E:A. Unfortunately the rules mechanics do not have quite enough granularity to represent this sensibly, other than the through the use of different troop types which are actually an admix of weapon and armour rather than capability etc.


Isn't that the initiative rating? You do get mixed initiatives in the same force to represent how SM are more reliable than their allied aircraft, for example. Could that just be extended?


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