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NetEA Blood Angels V3.0 list

 Post subject: Re: NetEA Blood Angels V3.0 list
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:43 pm 
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I don't have a problem with the list playing in a codex-like style, Blood Angels *are* a codex exemplar chapter after all, this list lets you take the blood angels toys without going nuts (I hope)

On Red Thirst, from the fluff it's a chapter-wide thing, I don't like the idea of it being an upgrade myself, I'd rather just give it to termies, tacs, devs and assaults and go with it (must always consolidate towards the closest enemy/-1 penalty to activate when they could engage but choose not to or something like that) or just abstract it into the general background noise of the list.... Which is my preferred option currently

Adding inspiring to the supcom's retinue is a good idea for sanguinary guard

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Blood Angels V3.0 list
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:16 am 
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Dave wrote:
Elrik's Honor Guard character suggestion seems good and easy enough.

On the Red Thirst, ideally you want a rule to reward a player for playing it fluffy, rather than one which mechanically forces them to do something. I'm also not convinced that this list will play much differently than the Codex list, rather than be a "Codex with different stuff" (although I certainly prefer it to the older "Codex with MORE stuff" list). So here's my suggestion to address both of those:

Make Red Thirst a formation upgrade, the formations become initiative 3+ with a +2 bonus to engage and rally. And give the formation some sort of CC bump (extra attack/straight CC increase for infantry, Inspiring if one unit makes it into CC, etc).


The 3+ init with the ork speed freak +2 for an engage is an easy workable mechanic.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Blood Angels V3.0 list
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:39 am 
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The Space Wolves' "Unblooded" rule might be worth taking a look in the NetEA list. Sounds to be in a similar vein.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Blood Angels V3.0 list
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:40 am 
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m_folais wrote:
Dave wrote:
Elrik's Honor Guard character suggestion seems good and easy enough.

On the Red Thirst, ideally you want a rule to reward a player for playing it fluffy, rather than one which mechanically forces them to do something. I'm also not convinced that this list will play much differently than the Codex list, rather than be a "Codex with different stuff" (although I certainly prefer it to the older "Codex with MORE stuff" list). So here's my suggestion to address both of those:

Make Red Thirst a formation upgrade, the formations become initiative 3+ with a +2 bonus to engage and rally. And give the formation some sort of CC bump (extra attack/straight CC increase for infantry, Inspiring if one unit makes it into CC, etc).


The 3+ init with the ork speed freak +2 for an engage is an easy workable mechanic.


the thing is, that isn't how they work, they are still space marines and still disciplined, intelligent and responsive, even the frothing khorne berserkers aren't *that* combat focused rules-wise....

Keep throwing the ideas out, we'll find something that fits eventually

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Blood Angels V3.0 list
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:16 am 
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With a risk of repeating myself with inspiring... ”if a formation with Red Thirst” inflicts at least 1 dc/casualty in cc, gain +1 to combat result.


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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Blood Angels V3.0 list
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:24 am 
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kyussinchains wrote:
I'd rather just give it to termies, tacs, devs and assaults and go with it (must always consolidate towards the closest enemy/-1 penalty to activate when they could engage but choose not to or something like that) or just abstract it into the general background noise of the list.... Which is my preferred option currently


I think that's the nicest sollution. -1 to activate if you dont choose to engage when you can. Neat and simple.

kyussinchains wrote:
Adding inspiring to the supcom's retinue is a good idea for sanguinary guard


Yes, i like that one too!

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Blood Angels V3.0 list
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:01 pm 
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okay for now the red thirst rule will be

'if a formation is in engage range of an enemy and has one or more stands able to get into BTB contact, the formation recieves a -1 penalty to the activation roll if it chooses any action other than engage'

I'll also add the option to upgrade a unit of assault marines to sanguinary guard if the supreme commander is added, giving him inspiring for +25pts

how does that sound for the time being? very open to change on the red thirst rule in future but I think we're arguing over the details right now and it would be good to get a few playtests under our belts

will update the pdf shortly

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Blood Angels V3.0 list
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:43 pm 
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had some spare time this afternoon so put the new v3.0 list into ArmyForge

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Blood Angels V3.0 list
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:33 pm 
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Happy with both additions. Red thirst is such a key part of the BA background that I do think it needs to be in the list in some manner.


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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Blood Angels V3.0 list
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:13 pm 
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Really like this. Blood Angels were my first army ever (SM2 box set) and i still have a lot of love for them. I will see if i can get some plays in with them (and finally get my assault marines out of their box! Yay!)

My only concern is the Red Thirst rule. Generally rules which penalize the player make for un-fun in game design. Loosing a game because your Preditors decide they want to to ram a Lord of Battles rather than sustain on it would be serious un-fun. As Dave says :

Dave wrote:
On the Red Thirst, ideally you want a rule to reward a player for playing it fluffy, rather than one which mechanically forces them to do something.


I get that the thirst is always described in the fluff as a "flaw" but it needn't be in the game. To place a different emphasis on Mrdiealot's quote : "In battle Blood Angels can harness these visions to evoke a ferocity that gives the Blood Angels Chapter its reputation for unparalleled brutal assaults." Only "sometimes" they go bat-poop crazy, and isn't that basically wrapped up in the compulsory death Co?

I would go for one of the bonuses (either extra +1 to resolution, or inspiring) if fighting in CC. My own suggestion would be to flip your current rule - ie. +1 activation (ie. auto even with BMs) if engaging in to B2B. Gets across the eagerness to get up close but requires you to place units in harms way if you want to make the most of it (and thereby further encourages choosing assault marines with their better threat range to get the most out of it).

Otherwise i can see a canny opponent using it to "anti-clipping" assault - draw out assault marines by placing one unit from a solid formation 29.5cm away and watching the BA player agonizing about either assaulting into a doomed FF with a monster formation or facing a 3+ activation (with a BM). Fluffy but un-fun imho.


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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Blood Angels V3.0 list
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 1:14 am 
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I like the "Red Thirst" rule. Stuff like that really adds to the feel of the list. I guess it would be just the Inf that has it?

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Blood Angels V3.0 list
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 1:26 am 
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And speaking of the Army Forge... Looks like there might be need for some button-pushing. It ain't getting updated.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Blood Angels V3.0 list
PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:29 am 
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Tried out the list tonight against Argol and his Scions of Iron.

Really enjoyed playing it! The Deth Company was really hard hitting and durable and caused some havoc in the enemy back lines. Didn't get the chance to try out the assault marines in combat since Argols thunderbolts critted their thunderhawk out of the sky when it came in for a big air assault (major turning point in the game).
Was never in range to see the Red thirst rule in effect and didn't go for any extra move engages either.
Will continue to try them out in the near future.

Heres my list:

Incompertus, 3000 POINTS
Blood Angels (V3.0 TCMD forum)
==================================================

DEATH COMPANY [375]
4 Death Company Units plus Transport, Chaplain, Death Company Dreadnought

ASSAULT DETACHMENT [350]
6 Blood Angels Assault Marine Unit, Chaplain

LAND SPEEDERS [200]
5 Land Speeder

LAND SPEEDERS [200]
5 Land Speeder

SPACECRAFT [200]
Strike Cruiser

TACTICAL DETACHMENT [475]
6 Blood Angels Tacticals plus Transport, Supreme Commander, Hunter, Razorback (Lascannon)

TERMINATOR DETACHMENT [400]
4 Terminators, Chaplain

STORM TALONS [200]
2 Storm Talons

STORM TALONS [200]
2 Storm Talons

THUNDERHAWK [200]
1 Thunderhawk Gunship

THUNDERHAWK [200]
1 Thunderhawk Gunship

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Blood Angels V3.0 list
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:53 am 
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let's talk about dreadnoughts....

I am unsure whether Assault Marines should retain their access to dreadnoughts, in a thunderhawk, you would almost always take two dreadnoughts in preference to extra assault stands as they cost the same, have a better save and have two macro attacks

I don't think they are intrinsically underpriced given their weak FF abilities and lack of a ranged attack, but as an upgrade to the assault formation, they render additional stands obsolete, unless you plan on deploying the dudes on foot and bouncing them around all game....

What say everyone?

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Blood Angels V3.0 list
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:22 am 
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kyussinchains wrote:
let's talk about dreadnoughts....

I am unsure whether Assault Marines should retain their access to dreadnoughts, in a thunderhawk, you would almost always take two dreadnoughts in preference to extra assault stands as they cost the same, have a better save and have two macro attacks

I don't think they are intrinsically underpriced given their weak FF abilities and lack of a ranged attack, but as an upgrade to the assault formation, they render additional stands obsolete, unless you plan on deploying the dudes on foot and bouncing them around all game....

What say everyone?
I'd say give it a try and see what people go for with play testing. As you pointed out, there's what I'd consider a large downside to the speed reduction of the formation. No more bouncing across the map to set up another assault. It also makes the formation sucesstible to AT fire. But if you find people regularly only take the dreads for the MW and/or spam them which wasn't intended, roll back the upgrades in a later version.

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