Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 86 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

Harakoni Warhawks - v1.5 (20131016)

 Post subject: Re: Harakoni Warhawks - v1.4 (20110831)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:21 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:20 pm
Posts: 5452
Location: London, UK
Hmm, I am not sure that the mechanics are correct Signal.

It is the Maurader that activates, declaring a ground Assault. At this point it can either shoot its guns or 'participate' in an assault - but not both IMHO. So, in practice if you are not allowing it to land and take part in the assault, only the ground troops get to fight while the Marauder does nothing. OTOH, should the attackers lose the assault resolution, the Marauder should not automatically die (like other transports in this situation) because it is still 'flying' and thus not involved in the assault.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Harakoni Warhawks - v1.4 (20110831)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:03 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 7:26 am
Posts: 311
"ground attack," not an air assault. Nobody actually uses a firefight value or close combat, just shooting attacks. As a war engine transport, however, troops which disembark during the movement part of the marauders activation may fire their weapons during the shooting component of the activation :) Marauders are incapable of performing an air assault at all. Anyone working to perform air assaults is encouraged to use the assault gliders.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Harakoni Warhawks - v1.4 (20110831)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:28 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:20 pm
Posts: 5452
Location: London, UK
Ah - understood. Well I agree that the Marauder could drop the troops, and both could fire on the target.

So are you suggesting that if using a Marauder to carry troops in this fashion, the troops may *not* actually assault (they can only shoot)?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Harakoni Warhawks - v1.4 (20110831)
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:09 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 7:26 am
Posts: 311
Yes, that is correct. There is no way to conduct an engagement when a formation disembarks from a Marauder. Either use a glider to do an air assault, or ground attack with the formation at the end of the turn, conducting an engage action at the beginning of the next turn :)


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Harakoni Warhawks - v1.4 (20110831)
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:48 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:20 pm
Posts: 5452
Location: London, UK
Weeell I think that needs to be made abundantly clear - otherwise others will make the same mistake as I did, read the air rules on the "Ground assault" activation, and assume that they could "assault" a target rather than just shooting it. (if you see what I mean) :)

Perhaps you could change the wording accordingly:-
Quote:
While transporting units, the Marauder is unable to use its Bomb Racks and cannot embark any troops after the game begins. When carrying troops, the Marauder Heavy Bomber declares a 'Ground attack' and if successfull it makes an approach move as normal. The troops deploy using grav-chutes or in skimmers as if they had jump-packs. Once deployed the entire formation (Marauder and troops) may fire on a target but may not conduct an assault.


Finally, I would remove references to 'self-planetfall' and just use the normal Planetfall rules. Afterall, you have provided the various spacecraft options.
("self"-planetfall has a number of issues that make it *broken* as a rule mechanic)

However, it is certainly an attractive list and seems generally 'sound'


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Harakoni Warhawks - v1.4 (20110831)
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:48 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 7:26 am
Posts: 311
There shouldn't be any need to elaborate further on the transport rules, although clearing up a bit of wording might be helpful. War Engine Transport Aircraft can offload troops only when conducting one of two actions: A Ground Attack, or an Air Assault (which are separate actions.) I should clarify that they are unable to take an "Air-Assault action." The rules for Ground Attack include the rest of the information on how the troops may fire at the same target as the aircraft.

You are correct about the possible 'broken' issues with the self-planetfall rules, but I'm very hesitant to remove it. Turning it into regular Planetfall would restrict them to arriving at the same time as every other planetfalling unit, which is something I'd like to avoid. Any suggestions on how to allow different-turn drop zones without either self-planetfall or multiple spacecraft?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Harakoni Warhawks - v1.4 (20110831)
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 10:52 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:15 am
Posts: 1832
Location: Oslo, Norway
Air Assault is actually an option for transport aircraft performing a Ground Attack action, but you can still disallow it.

What's the reason to disallow it, btw? That you don't want the Marauder involved?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Harakoni Warhawks - v1.4 (20110831)
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:32 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:20 pm
Posts: 5452
Location: London, UK
Signal wrote:
You are correct about the possible 'broken' issues with the self-planetfall rules, but I'm very hesitant to remove it. Turning it into regular Planetfall would restrict them to arriving at the same time as every other planetfalling unit, which is something I'd like to avoid. Any suggestions on how to allow different-turn drop zones without either self-planetfall or multiple spacecraft?

Well, you could go for Teleport as the Elysians do, to represent grav-chutes being used from some high flying craft. However, you have also provided the alternative mechanic of 'Gliders' and using Marauders to bring other formations on. I guess the real question is why do you need troops constantly dropping in from the sky?
- Is it needed to represent waves of troops arriving (so use Planetfall and then Teleport),
- to represent different means of arrival (I really like the idea troops arriving in a 'glider' that was released by the tug off-table.)


Note, I am less sure about the Marauder idea because it is likely to confuse. However, here is a thought:- provide the 'glider' as a 0-2 upgrade to the Marauder, and require that the glider(s) activate after the Marauder. This way, the Bomber still does what it should, while you then have the additional Troop/Vehicle transport.



As behind them, which IMHO should be allowed to assault - though the mechanics need clarifying)


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Harakoni Warhawks - v1.4 (20110831)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:34 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 7:26 am
Posts: 311
Had a game last night! Finally got a chance to try out the Warhawks, although the game ended up called just into the second turn.

My list:
5 Strike Companies (1 with SupCom in a Marauder, 1 in Valkyries, others in Gliders) Various upgrades
3 Demo Specialists (2 in gliders, 1 in Vendettas)
2 flights of lightning strikes
2 Marauder Destroyers
aforementioned Marauder Bomber
4x Interceptor formation

Opponents list: (Scions of Iron)
Land Raider formation (8 LRs and a Hunter)
Heavy Tac (4 LRs) in a Landing Craft
Whirlwinds (in Thunderhawk Transporters)
Terminators
Scouts
Bikes
Lunar Cruiser
Close Air Support T-Hawk
Thunderbolts

It had been quite a while since I played a game, so I was a bit apprehensive about how this would turn out. When I saw my opponent had Scions of Iron I was very thankful for my sappers, but it turned out his list was pretty unoptimized. Thanks to an impressive slough of terrible rolling on my opponent's behalf, I was able to wipe out the Whirlwinds, Heavy Tac company, Scouts, Bikes, and the Terminators for the loss of the valkyrie-borne company and a handful of sappers.

Didn't get a chance to try out a lot of the tactics I had planned on, but Strike Company Glider-borne Ground Attacks worked pretty well to my advantage. Being able to Engage the Demo Specialists out of the gliders also worked well in attacking some of the heavy armored companies I fought. My opponent didn't feel anything was overpowered, but it was hard for us to get a good sense of the army, simply due to having only one complete turn. He called the game after most of his mobile elements were destroyed by aircraft and Strike companies. Being spread too thin meant that he only really had his one Land Raider BTS to fight with, against almost the full might of my list. More than a comment on the quality of my list or power level of the army, this game showed how poorish list design and terrible dice rolls (4 Land Raiders and 4 Whirlwinds unable to make a single save between them, among other things) can really sway the course of the game.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Harakoni Warhawks - v1.4 (20110831)
PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:01 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 1:24 am
Posts: 4499
Location: Melbourne, Australia
There's an upgrade of "4 Warhawks and Gravchutes" for the Strike Company.

The Gravchutes idea is a bit hazy to me. This might be a silly question, but how arethe Gravchutes ability applied?

Is it the Skyborne rule that grants it to all infantry in the company once you purchase the upgrade, e.g. adding the extra 4 Warhawks and Gravchutes gives the entire company (which doesn't have them to start with) the Skyborne rule?

Or does every infantry unit in the army already have the Skyborne rule (Planetfall) and thus the Gravchutes?

Also how are the Strike Company Valks purchased? Individually for 25 each or as 3 for 75? It's listed as both.

Also, what's the point/purpose of the Onero Overflight with just 4x AT4 Pin-point attacks?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Harakoni Warhawks - v1.4 (20110831)
PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 1:42 pm 
Purestrain
Purestrain
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 8:16 pm
Posts: 4643
Location: Downers Grove, IL
I don't particularly like the implementation of the gravchutes rule either. As it stands it is a special rule applied at the formation level. Thus purchasing the extra infantry grants it to the entire fromation. I'd prefer it to be along the lines of Teleport; a unit special ability that can only be used if the entire formation has it.

It looks like the Valks are 75pt for the first three, but if you take formation upgrades you have to take enough to transport everyone. A better wording might be: Valkyries - enough to transport the entire formation. 25 pt each. It works out the same.

The Onero has 2x Pinpoints for a total of 8 shots at AT4+. It is a spacecraft substitute, and will allow Gravchute insertion, i.e. planetfall. It also allows skimmers to be transported and dropped, something which might not be neccessary due to the fact they all have Self-Planetfall.

_________________
SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Harakoni Warhawks - v1.4 (20110831)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:17 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 7:26 am
Posts: 311
Yes, it's a formation-wide special rule which allows them to planetfall. My reason for doing it in that manner is so that a) there's no need to alter all of the specific infantry and vehicles, since the vast majority of them are sourced from other lists, and b) so that the Valkyrie formation requires all of the troops to be transported when planetfalling.

Spectrar Ghost is correct as to how the Gravchutes rule works, as well as the way the Valkyries are priced. The reason it's priced the way it is, is that you are required to pick one of the three options, and with the +75 pts for three Valkyries, that's all you have to choose; that 75 points purchases you the complete formation. To my mind it's easier to compare your options with that as the listing, instead of having it be a "free" option, which also requires you to purchase Valkyries at +25 pts each, with a starting minimum requirement of 3.

The Self-Planetfall rule will probably be disappearing from the Valkyries, which will make the Oneiro more important. The overflight is currently the only way to planetfall troops (remember that the spacecraft don't have any transport capacity) and the two barrages of 4 shots each are intended to allow the player to strip void shields off of war engines easily. Macroweapon strikes don't seem necessarily appropriate for representing an aircraft wing, but possessing simply the transport ability didn't seem to aid the list enough. My intent is effectively represent a one-turn allocation of Lightning Strikes or Thunderbolts directed towards enemy war engines as the troops are landing.

The GravChutes rule might still be altered to allow more coordinated drops, but I'm looking for something which is a better representation than simply "Drop Pods."


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Harakoni Warhawks - v1.4 (20110831)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:59 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 20, 2010 6:12 am
Posts: 1331
Location: Australia
i found the self-planetfalling valks to be a very useful feature, allowing the list to present a more diverse front than "everything lands on one turn within 30cm of each other" (especially for larger games, where you'll need to take an inordinate amount of lightning strikes to kill off artillery so that when you drop your entire army within a few barrage templates, they dont get wiped off the table in a few actions)
i would be sad to see it go

_________________
~Every Tool Is A Weapon, If You Hold It Right~


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Harakoni Warhawks - v1.4.2 (20111121)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:19 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:56 pm
Posts: 733
Location: San Jose, CA (Los Gatos)
Ive read these rules with interest. Awhile back I found the Warhawks and decided to paint my Krieg in their colors, but now I can just make a few additions and play this list too.

I would like to see one rewording on your Skyborne rule: "All Infantry and Light Vehicles in a formation with that includes GravChutes..."

This would help clarify that not all units need it in order to use it. Just saying...

Looking forward to using this.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Harakoni Warhawks - v1.4.2 (20111121)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:49 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 7:26 am
Posts: 311
That's probably a wise change Kealios, thanks.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 86 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net