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Tallarn Desert Regiment

 Post subject: Re: Tallarn Desert Regiment
PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 11:26 pm 
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My list that jimmy and I worked on still exists...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jifag8yu00u8t ... 0.pdf?dl=0

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 Post subject: Re: Tallarn Desert Regiment
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 1:06 am 
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jimmyzimms wrote:
Heavy use of fast armour, Mukaali, desert raider infiltrators, and of course the Tallarn Support Sentinel from FW.

So thoughts welcome. Should we ditch this or see it through?



Still a few niggles that don't sit quite right with me (I protest at the lack of Rough Riders!), though overall I quite like it. You probably know I'd prefer my Tallarn 'heavier', but this variation is interesting enough without including too many objectionable concepts (to me, personally, such as those really awful buggy things) to be something I could use.

Also, should I point out the typos (and the fact that you've included the Vulture unit but named it the Valkyrie)?


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 Post subject: Re: Tallarn Desert Regiment
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 7:42 pm 
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I'm quite interested in this list - mainly because I got a set of the TMG Desert Infantry from the crowd funder last year. As such I prefer splash's list as it fits the figure range really well with only a few tweaks. Once I've got them all painted I'll have to give it a proper go.

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 Post subject: Re: Tallarn Desert Regiment
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:23 pm 
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Doomkitten wrote:
You probably know I'd prefer my Tallarn 'heavier',

We did consider having the conqueror formation in core (spam risk? or fine? all needs testing). While tallarn could be nice heavier there are already a lot of armoured lists and mech inf lists that can represent tallarn forces of that make-up.

Quote:
I protest at the lack of Rough Riders!
Jimmy's just mean and wouldn't let me play with the horses :(


What are your other niggles?

I'm keen to test the list … but i say that a lot then hardly ever get games in. Hopefully Jimmy and I can at least get a vassal game up.

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 Post subject: Re: Tallarn Desert Regiment
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:26 pm 
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Perhaps the swapping of hellhounds for tauros? Those without a model can simply use HH as the Counts-as anyways since both are not there so no confusion. An autocannon equipped Venator could give some extra bite to this force.

Apocolocyntosis wrote:
Jimmy's just mean and wouldn't let me play with the horses :(

Hush you! :gah Go grade some papers!

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 Post subject: Re: Tallarn Desert Regiment
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:56 pm 
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jimmyzimms wrote:
Perhaps the swapping of hellhounds for tauros? Those without a model can simply use HH as the Counts-as anyways since both are not there so no confusion. An autocannon equipped Venator could give some extra bite to this force.
Quote:

Friends don't let friends put buggies in army lists. If you've got conquerers, and if the entire army isn't based around aircav (and it's far from that) then the need for anything other than the most occasional use of Tauros is almost gone. More use of the lighter chimera-based chassis (so no big artillery pieces), makes more flavour-sense to me.

Apocolocyntosis wrote:
Jimmy's just mean and wouldn't let me play with the horses

Threaten him with air-dropped greek-fire-pigs. More lists need more horses!

Apocolocyntosis wrote:
What are your other niggles?
I'm just about to be on my way out the door for gaming, so I'll get back to the other niggles when I return.

Apocolocyntosis wrote:
I'm keen to test the list … but i say that a lot then hardly ever get games in. Hopefully Jimmy and I can at least get a vassal game up.

If you get vassal games up, I'd be interested in one or two, either with or against. Of course, whether someone's first game of E:A would count as a playtest is another matter entirely...


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 Post subject: Re: Tallarn Desert Regiment
PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 4:15 am 
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Apocolocyntosis wrote:
Doomkitten wrote:
You probably know I'd prefer my Tallarn 'heavier',

We did consider having the conqueror formation in core (spam risk? or fine? all needs testing). While tallarn could be nice heavier there are already a lot of armoured lists and mech inf lists that can represent tallarn forces of that make-up.


Agree. A Tallarn heavy armor list is just a Minervan list with a stlight bit of cosmetic change. Totally unnecessary and not needed. This is/was (when jimmy and I were discussing it) a light vehicle list primarily, featuring sentinels in all their glory.

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 Post subject: Re: Tallarn Desert Regiment
PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 4:17 am 
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jimmyzimms wrote:
Perhaps the swapping of hellhounds for tauros? Those without a model can simply use HH as the Counts-as anyways since both are not there so no confusion. An autocannon equipped Venator could give some extra bite to this force.


Well, if it's model availability that hinders a list, then why not just replace hellhounds with more sentinels? Or perhaps salamander scouts?

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 Post subject: Re: Tallarn Desert Regiment
PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 5:30 am 
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[quote="splash"Agree. A Tallarn heavy armor list is just a Minervan list with a stlight bit of cosmetic change. Totally unnecessary and not needed. [/quote]

There's a level of sublety between "heavy" and hooning about with nothing more than lizards and buggies. Dismissing it because you don't like it isn't an argument. There's such a point as "too light" and at the moment this list feels that way. Moving Conquerors into core is a reasonable answer, as might be the option of a single support group of standard Russes. What's totally unnecessary and not needed is bastardising the Tallarn into becoming yet another air drop army in E:A. No vehicles except Tauros point very strongly to that theme rather than a light assets force.

I had a bit of a thought about the desert raiders unit and the missing Rough Riders - why not combine the two? Fast cav with a big punch that crumbles under any sort of return fire sounds like a hit and run raider unit to me, and places them in the list with a strong role alongside the more tanky Muckitymuck riders.

Onto niggles.

First, not currently a niggle, but please, PLEASE keep the buggies out. Tallarn don't do aircav, we have no need to deploy Tallarn as aircav. So they really shouldn't have aircav vehicles in place of the very commonly used chimera variants (and possibly lighter/simpler Russ variants) when there reasonably isn't an excuse except for 'differentiating the lists' purposes. It kills the theme (at least to me, personally).

(From here, it's in no particular order)

Niggle 2 - why the Marauder Destroyer?
Niggle 3 - why no Salamanders? It seems like a perfect light vehicle that raiders could abuse as a transport when not in combat.
Niggle 4 - has no effect on the rules or stats (so is really just cosmetic), but why not missile launchers (more easily portable) than the autocannon?
Niggle 5 - a light force, seemingly meant to be mobile...and has incredibly slow-moving sabre platforms. Why no hydra instead? Even without a hydra, why include something that can only be used after it has been deployed - it seems much more a static defensive weapon, rather than an addition to a fast moving raider force.
Niggle 6 - needs more Russ. Lighter variants, okay, if we must, but they have to be in there somewhere, however limited it's deemed they have to be.

There's some thoughts. All personal opinions of things that don't sit entirely right with me.


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 Post subject: Re: Tallarn Desert Regiment
PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 2:29 pm 
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All great posts above! In no particular order:

Apocolocyntosis wrote:
Doomkitten wrote:
You probably know I'd prefer my Tallarn 'heavier',

We did consider having the conqueror formation in core (spam risk? or fine? all needs testing). While tallarn could be nice heavier there are already a lot of armoured lists and mech inf lists that can represent tallarn forces of that make-up.

Yeah we're trying to fit somewhere in between ultralight (Elysians) and a mech. I'll point out the Ulani list is probably THE best fit for a "typical" Tallarn force.

Doomkitten wrote:
Friends don't let friends put buggies in army lists. If you've got conquerers, and if the entire army isn't based around aircav (and it's far from that) then the need for anything other than the most occasional use of Tauros is almost gone. More use of the lighter chimera-based chassis (so no big artillery pieces), makes more flavour-sense to me.

That's ultimately why Hell hounds and Griffons ended up in here instead of Tauros as the list became too light them being LVs vs AVs. However if a Tauros ended in instead of an AV likely the Conquerors would have to be core, which again opened worries about Spamming one of the better guard units. Seriously, it's the MOST under rated Guard tank in the game and using 2-3 6 unit Conqueror formations can cause so much havoc in an enemy back field. Basically any and all vehicles (other than Sentinels which perform a specialized role) are at least 30cm on purpose.

splash wrote:
jimmyzimms wrote:
Perhaps the swapping of hellhounds for tauros? Those without a model can simply use HH as the Counts-as anyways since both are not there so no confusion. An autocannon equipped Venator could give some extra bite to this force.


Well, if it's model availability that hinders a list, then why not just replace hellhounds with more sentinels? Or perhaps salamander scouts?

Oh wasn't about model availability at all. Just pointing out to be helpful to people that don't like to use paper proxies and MUST have models that swapping something like the HH, which let's admit it, almost everyone has a formation tucked away somewhere, is an easy to use count-as.

Great point on the Salamanders. I'm fairly certain that Apoc and I just left them out by oversight (I certainly know we discussed them). I'd see no issues being able to attach and a standard 3 formation as a scouting force (with ability to add a command variant)

Doomkitten wrote:
What's totally unnecessary and not needed is bastardising the Tallarn into becoming yet another air drop army in E:A. No vehicles except Tauros point very strongly to that theme rather than a light assets force.

I get your worry about too light to fight, see above, but I think that's a fair amount of hyperbole in that as well. After all, there's no lack of AVs and the Conquerors even have RA (seriously, 30cm RA tanks people! :) ). You're spot on about the big question if they should be core or not. There's probably some list mechanic that can be used to provide some balance to them not just fielding an entire force of them (and the fact they can't take the SC). All in all, good points DoomKitten!

Doomkitten wrote:
Niggle 2 - why the Marauder Destroyer?

Why not? ;) Actually because it absolutely shreds hoard based army's which this list would have little ability to handle well.

Doomkitten wrote:
Niggle 4 - has no effect on the rules or stats (so is really just cosmetic), but why not missile launchers (more easily portable) than the autocannon?
Rose by any other name. No more nor less portable in the fluff (see Tread-fethers in Gaunt's Ghosts). If we want to change the name to another weapon then no worries from me.

Doomkitten wrote:
Niggle 5 - a light force, seemingly meant to be mobile...and has incredibly slow-moving sabre platforms.
They're towable by the Chimeras (probably Salamanders too if thrown in). Take another gander. It's basically a ZPU-4, which again, is trying to make the connection to North Africa with the British hauling ass around the desert with towed 30 cals everywhere.

Doomkitten wrote:
Niggle 6 - needs more Russ. Lighter variants, okay, if we must, but they have to be in there somewhere,
There's only one light Russ which is already in. Core vs Support however is a good discussion.

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 Post subject: Re: Tallarn Desert Regiment
PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 2:41 pm 
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I think, in my own opinion, if the hellhounds were exchanged for salamanders, I could live with it and not bring up any other negatives about it. I still like the original list we worked on, but compared to the new one, it is a bit fiddly and a bit too light.

But, excachange Hellhounds for Salamander scouts (with an upgrade option)....well, at least playtest it first to see if it's actually going to work out.

I did buy thudd guns and centaurs for the original list...guess I can repurpose them for something else.

BTW...who has salamander scouts for sale?

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 Post subject: Re: Tallarn Desert Regiment
PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 3:26 pm 
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Trollz has something that fits the bill. Contact them direct over facebook. For my own collection though I'll note that I use my Centaurs as Salamanders when playing Minervan and ostensibly this list too. I doubt you'd need to purchase more/others since they really fit the same role collection-wise.

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Last edited by jimmyzimms on Fri Jan 15, 2016 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Tallarn Desert Regiment
PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 3:35 pm 
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Well, IF I manage to finally get an IG army done, I'd like it to be dual-purpose Tallarn Desert Raiders and Minervan Tank Legion. So I've been/I'll be getting minis that will crossover quite easily.

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 Post subject: Re: Tallarn Desert Regiment
PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 3:50 pm 
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Updated list with Salamanders

Apoc asked if Leman Russ Destroyer platoon will scratch that "heavier" itch. It's a good question. Just for fair warning the version would be more like the EUK one. The NetEA Destroyer is retarded and I won't have any of that silliness.

Tallarn Leman Russ Destroyer
AV 20cm A:4+ C:6+ F:6+
Tallarn Laser Destroyer 75cm AT4+ Sniper, Lance
OR
Tallarn Laser Destroyer 75cm AT2+ Sniper
Reinforced Armour, Scout.

Not sure which form of the weapon

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 Post subject: Re: Tallarn Desert Regiment
PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 4:35 pm 
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Scout on the LR Destroyer??

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