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Daemon World List

 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:36 pm 
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BatRep is up.

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=32548&p=614409

I'm going to have a look at stats/point costs and see if I can post something today.

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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:16 am 
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Maybe change the demonic instability rule instead of losing D3 units maybe make it "the unit gains D3 blast markers rather than one blast marker, for a failed activation.". Still a reasonable detriment but not crippling if you fail.

Also the demonic instability rule in the 7th edition 40k codex was implemented to balance out the fact that all daemons have fearless.

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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:47 am 
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Thats a better sollution.

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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:52 am 
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Dave wrote:
BatRep is up.

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=32548&p=614409

I'm going to have a look at stats/point costs and see if I can post something today.


Noticed you teleported the horror formation with the greater Daemon attached. The list says you can't teleport anything other than inf, lv or AV with walker. How did you guys find the list rule changes you guys played with? Any you'd absolutely keep or change or not use again?

Looking forward to seeing your stat/points suggestions.

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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:51 pm 
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Beyond these:

viewtopic.php?p=614409#p614409

We dropped the teleport restrictions. I think a better balance can be found with a pay to teleport. Something like 5 points a unit.

There hasn't been any changes we haven't liked yet, but we're biased. We have another report from last week. I'll try to post it Tuesday.

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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:56 pm 
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Had some time today for the first time in ages and did an incremental update to the list drawing on the things we have discussed in here.

Changes:

The army has gone to initiative 1+ - seems to be a widely requested change and will hopefully allow the army to function better as intended. In combination with other changes it shouldn't be too powerful though.

Instability has been changed to 1D3 blastmarkers on a failed activation rather than 1D3 kills. I considered getting rid of it entirely, however I think the current version is a better place as it continues the fluff element, encourages larger base formations, and offsets the easier activation on 1+ initiative. Will also sync with:

Heralds have gained Leader, to help with shedding blastmarkers from teleporting, and have gained a 30cm MW5+ ranged attack. Kept it simple across the Gods and should allow at least some blastmarker prepping etc.

Daemon Lords have gone for now, as I never put stats in for them, and don't have a clear idea of what to do with them beyond a vague relation to the FW greater daemons.

Highlighted the Infantry / LV / AV with Walker restiction on the Teleport, but happy to change if we look into avoiding abuse (three teleportiing Bloodthirsters anyone?)

Tinkered with GD costs - dropped to 150pts when bought as part of a Lesser Daemon Horde, and split costs between the flying ones and the non-flying ones in the GD horse.

Generally aiming for a bump in ability for the list to function - making things like activation, teleportation, and prepping assaults easier without loosing that chaotic edge. Had had a thought about using the spaceship rules as a way of incorporating a non-BM'ed teleport oppurtunity. Something like buy a Warp Rift which would have to be pre-plotted and have a chosen turn, then allow daemons to "planetfall" from it to avoid a BM teleport on a single turn. Wanted to discuss it before adding tho!

Let mee know what you think guys :)


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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:57 pm 
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novemberrain wrote:
Had some time today for the first time in ages and did an incremental update to the list drawing on the things we have discussed in here.

Changes:

The army has gone to initiative 1+ - seems to be a widely requested change and will hopefully allow the army to function better as intended. In combination with other changes it shouldn't be too powerful though.

Instability has been changed to 1D3 blastmarkers on a failed activation rather than 1D3 kills. I considered getting rid of it entirely, however I think the current version is a better place as it continues the fluff element, encourages larger base formations, and offsets the easier activation on 1+ initiative. Will also sync with:

Heralds have gained Leader, to help with shedding blastmarkers from teleporting, and have gained a 30cm MW5+ ranged attack. Kept it simple across the Gods and should allow at least some blastmarker prepping etc.

Daemon Lords have gone for now, as I never put stats in for them, and don't have a clear idea of what to do with them beyond a vague relation to the FW greater daemons.

Highlighted the Infantry / LV / AV with Walker restiction on the Teleport, but happy to change if we look into avoiding abuse (three teleportiing Bloodthirsters anyone?)

Tinkered with GD costs - dropped to 150pts when bought as part of a Lesser Daemon Horde, and split costs between the flying ones and the non-flying ones in the GD horse.

Generally aiming for a bump in ability for the list to function - making things like activation, teleportation, and prepping assaults easier without loosing that chaotic edge. Had had a thought about using the spaceship rules as a way of incorporating a non-BM'ed teleport oppurtunity. Something like buy a Warp Rift which would have to be pre-plotted and have a chosen turn, then allow daemons to "planetfall" from it to avoid a BM teleport on a single turn. Wanted to discuss it before adding tho! Im also open to changing to a "pay to teleport" model but think it might be a bit finicky as some formations will value it a lot more than others.

Let mee know what you think guys :)

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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:52 pm 
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novemberrain wrote:
Changes:

The army has gone to initiative 1+ - seems to be a widely requested change and will hopefully allow the army to function better as intended. In combination with other changes it shouldn't be too powerful though.

Instability has been changed to 1D3 blastmarkers on a failed activation rather than 1D3 kills. I considered getting rid of it entirely, however I think the current version is a better place as it continues the fluff element, encourages larger base formations, and offsets the easier activation on 1+ initiative. Will also sync with:

Heralds have gained Leader, to help with shedding blastmarkers from teleporting, and have gained a 30cm MW5+ ranged attack. Kept it simple across the Gods and should allow at least some blastmarker prepping etc.

Daemon Lords have gone for now, as I never put stats in for them, and don't have a clear idea of what to do with them beyond a vague relation to the FW greater daemons.

Highlighted the Infantry / LV / AV with Walker restiction on the Teleport, but happy to change if we look into avoiding abuse (three teleportiing Bloodthirsters anyone?)

Tinkered with GD costs - dropped to 150pts when bought as part of a Lesser Daemon Horde, and split costs between the flying ones and the non-flying ones in the GD horse.


Sounds interesting! All of my 3k lists just got blown out of the water, haha. The 1+ activation and the herald shooting attack brings the core choices closer to a balance with their effectiveness compared to points cost. Maybe increase the size of the formations to 7 or even 8?

novemberrain wrote:
Had had a thought about using the spaceship rules as a way of incorporating a non-BM'ed teleport oppurtunity. Something like buy a Warp Rift which would have to be pre-plotted and have a chosen turn, then allow daemons to "planetfall" from it to avoid a BM teleport on a single turn. Wanted to discuss it before adding tho! I'm also open to changing to a "pay to teleport" model but think it might be a bit finicky as some formations will value it a lot more than others.


I really like the spaceship idea instead of the pay to Teleport, its fairly clean and gives the Daemon player a little more control over where the portal will go. Its a one time use with a bit of randomness so its super fully being that the warp rift opening would be somewhat under the control of the daemon gods but not entirely. Also give your slower Horde formations a reasonable chance of getting into the fray with out having to march for 2 turns but still limiting the number that can pop out, not that you have a half dozen formations at the new points cost just walking on to the board in your opponents deployment. Not sure how you want to cost it but I don't think it should add a surcharge to formations using it, just cost the gate right itself. I guess it depends on how you want it to work though:

Option A: A standard spaceship attack with a barrage that has BP "X" that opens a rift at the center that acts like a drop pod. Only one formation can come out then its gone. (Similar idea to the plague zombie deployment from the Deathguard list)

Option B: You self planet fall the gate itself which remains in play being able to deploy units from it (once per turn), it acting like the original objective gate idea but with a novel placement rule. Its only one formation a turn so it shouldn't need to be "slow and steady" but that's also something to consider. The gate opening could have some effect on non daemon formations in the area also. Something very similar to a death-wind attack but maybe a little more potent or with a larger range would do nicely.

Both would work nicely. the BP from the "spaceship attack" or the deathwind would nicely represent the confusion and fear/pain of a warp rift opening in close proximity to non tainted flesh.

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Last edited by atension on Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:59 am 
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I did really like the daemon Lord idea though. In the process of building one anyways :)

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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:59 am 
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atension wrote:
I did really like the daemon Lord idea though. In the process of building one anyways :)


Highly likely to come back, but took them out as I dont currently have access to the FW GD rules. If youve got them, feel free to shoot them over.

atension wrote:

Sounds interesting! All of my 3k lists just got blown out of the water, haha. The 1+ activation and the herald shooting attack brings the core choices closer to a balance with their effectiveness compared to points cost. Maybe increase the size of the formations to 7 or even 8?



Can you explain a bit more about why your 3k lists will need to change?

atension wrote:

I really like the spaceship idea instead of the pay to Teleport, its fairly clean and gives the Daemon player a little more control over where the portal will go. Its a one time use with a bit of randomness so its super fully being that the warp rift opening would be somewhat under the control of the daemon gods but not entirely. Also give your slower Horde formations a reasonable chance of getting into the fray with out having to march for 2 turns but still limiting the number that can pop out, not that you have a half dozen formations at the new points cost just walking on to the board in your opponents deployment. Not sure how you want to cost it but I don't think it should add a surcharge to formations using it, just cost the gate right itself. I guess it depends on how you want it to work though:

Option A: A standard spaceship attack with a barrage that has BP "X" that opens a rift at the center that acts like a drop pod. Only one formation can come out then its gone. (Similar idea to the plague zombie deployment from the Deathguard list)

Option B: You self planet fall the gate itself which remains in play being able to deploy units from it (once per turn), it acting like the original objective gate idea but with a novel placement rule. Its only one formation a turn so it shouldn't need to be "slow and steady" but that's also something to consider. The gate opening could have some effect on non daemon formations in the area also. Something very similar to a death-wind attack but maybe a little more potent or with a larger range would do nicely.

Both would work nicely. the BP from the "spaceship attack" or the deathwind would nicely represent the confusion and fear/pain of a warp rift opening in close proximity to non tainted flesh.


Im glad you like the idea, it was feverishly hatched in the shower. I was thinking of having the "spaceship" come on, launch an OB of a certain magnitude to represent the rift pulling open, and then allowing formations to then planetfall to the same location, like drop pods. Gives the bombardment and the ability of formations to teleport, but keeps them relatively contained by having them all arrive at roughly the same point. I do like your idea of the gate itself being the plantefalling thing, allowing formations to then activate out of it. Want to gather a few mor thoughts too

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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:58 pm 
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That's damned clever way to repurpose the existing tried and true mechanics.

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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:22 pm 
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Yeah that works. Turn the daemons into a drop assault list. Only thing is and it's only a minor fluff flaw is that the OB can be dropped to an independant location to the drop pods. This is fine but maybe instead call the OB attacks "coming under the gaze/focus of the chaos gods)" or something. I really like the idea of the chas gods having the same rules as a spaceship, very fitting.

Also need to reassess the teleporting options as well if formations can arrive via drop pod. And need to classify a transport capacity for the spaceship. Also if you want the drop pods to have a deathwind effect. All rather exciting.

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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:35 pm 
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atension wrote:
Yeah that works. Turn the daemons into a drop assault list. Only thing is and it's only a minor fluff flaw is that the OB can be dropped to an independant location to the drop pods. This is fine but maybe instead call the OB attacks "coming under the gaze/focus of the chaos gods)" or something. I really like the idea of the chas gods having the same rules as a spaceship, very fitting.

Also need to reassess the teleporting options as well if formations can arrive via drop pod. And need to classify a transport capacity for the spaceship. Also if you want the drop pods to have a deathwind effect. All rather exciting.



I'd figured we could limit the OB and the drop to the same location quite easily - just add a special rule stating the limitation. That means the rift and the daemons come at the same point.

Give the "spaceship" possibly slow and steady and a big drop capacity and it could entirely replace the teleport mechanic...

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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:57 pm 
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Something else to consider. Multiple "Spaceships" smaller capacity not slow and steady and higher capacity on the one with. Consider allowing GD'S on the slow and steady version since it will need to be pre designated at the beginning of the game.

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Last edited by atension on Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:27 pm 
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Perhaps GB REQUIRES the rift? Make it the core strategy around bringing in the very best (worst?) of the big guys

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