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Daemon World List

 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 2:26 pm 
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From the LatD standpoint, this was an interesting game. UberChris's unfortunate attack rolls and my unnatural ability to roll saves (at least in this game - my abysmal luck against Dave seems to be balanced out in games against everyone else) probably affected the outcome a more than desirable. I have no issue with 1+ activation. As Chris stated, placement of the teleporting formations is a very unforgiving process. Had my plague tower been less bulletproof (it was without a doubt MVP of the game even though it died turn 2), his placement might have worked out better, however. It was curious that my army was almost BM-free for much of the game. I think the fluff on daemon magic, as well as game balance, supports the notion that heralds have 15cm ranged attack. Much like the attack bike in the SM list, it would primarily be for setting up assaults rather than inflicting casualties. Since it's such a short-range attack though, it wouldn't alleviate the need to teleport in close though (a good thing I think).

The fact that it would be difficult to get FMs back to protect the blitz and T&H objectives is not so much a problem, however. I think that's an acceptable trade-off for a list that encourages teleporting and assaults. To mitigate that problem, the daemon player might have to weigh the pros and cons of reserving a FM to blitz guard duty (on initial placement or later teleport).

In one way this matchup was ideal for a teleport-assault army because I didn't take any scouts. I was at a distinct disadvantage with respect to affecting ZoC.

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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 3:35 am 
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I was able to get in two games a little over a week ago against captPiett's Codex Marines and Dave's Knight list. I took the following for both battles:

7 x Plaguebearers w/herald and Great Unclean One - 525
6 x Nurglings - 150
9 x Horrors w/herald and Lord of Change - 575 (bts, supreme co)
8 x Flamers - 200
8 x Bloodletters w/herald - 250
6 x Fleshhounds - 150
6 x Daemonettes w/herald and Keeper of Secrets - 500
6 x Furies - 150
1 x Lord of Change - 250
1 x Keeper of Secrets - 250

Total - 3,000 pts 10 x Activations

captPiett's Codex Marines
4 x Assault marines w/2 x Vindicators - 275
1 x Thunderhawk - 200
Terminators - 350
Landspeeders - 200
Scouts - 150
Predator Destructors w/ Hunter - 325
Devastators w/ Hunter - 325
Tactical w/ Chaplain and Dread - 375
Tactical w/ Hunter and supreme co. - 450 (bts)
T-Bolts - 175
T-Bolts - 175

Total - 3,000 pts 11 x activations

Dave's Knights
4 x Paladins w/Senechal - 415
4 x Paladins w/Senechal - 415
4 x Errants - 390
3 x Lancers w/Baron - 500 (supreme co, bts)
3 x Custodians (Crusader) - 375
3 x Custodians (Castellan) - 375
T-Bolts - 175
T-Bolts - 175
T-Bolts - 175

Total - 2,995 pts 9 x Activations

The first battle was against the Codex Marines. I deployed the Fleshounds, Furies, Keeper of Secrets and Lord of Change normally. The rest were deployed via teleport on turn 2, all but the Bloodletters received bms. I used the Nurglings to ZoC three Marine formations in order to protect the other five formations, because I was most likely going to lose strategy on turn 2. I placed all six formations on captPiett's left flank, as his scouts were mainly on his right and center. The dice were not kind to him after he won strategy and I was able to get into both CC and FF engagements. Having ranged shooting from the Greater Daemons was a big help as I was able to prep enemy formations for assault and harass formations further away. I was able to reduce the Marine activations by formations working in twos and threes in some cases and I was able win it 2-0 in Turn 3 with Defend the Flag and TSNP. It was nice to see the army perform as it was intended and this was my first and only win so far.

The second battle was against the Knights. I deployed as I did in the previous game (on another table with different terrain) and teleported mainly in the center of the board on turn 2, with all six formations receiving bms. I lost a few stands of Daemons due to failed activations. My armor saves were very good and I was able to win several engagements that, by the odds, Dave should have won. It was a hard fought game and Dave's quick-footed Knights were able to avoid my CC Daemons, so ranged shooting from the Greaters and FF had to pick up the slack. I was able to break four Knight formations by the end of turn 4, but Dave was able to rally all of them for a 1,113pt to 645pt win for the Knights. I think that I should have taken a couple of faster Daemon formations, because while I was busy chasing down the faster Knight formations, I found it hard to claim objectives at the same time. Dave and captPiett both felt that the Horrors were a little underpriced, Dave suggested that the Horrors chosen as an upgrade be worth 35-40 points each. I agree that some formation prices need to be tweaked and that the Greaters need their prices changed as well. As proposed in my last battle report, I'm going to try giving Heralds a 15cm AP6+/AT6+ ranged shooting attack for prepping assaults in the next game. I'm 1-3 so far, but I'm enjoying this unique list.

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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 1:19 am 
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Now that I'm getting to the point of having enough models assembled for a larger force, are there any plans to take this list further? For example tweaked points costs on the Greater Daemons.

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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 3:10 pm 
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Hey IJW

I am currently stuck in a place without any models / space to game, so things have ground to a halt for me. If you have suggestions or ideas on balancing the points costs across the units / formations, then I am totally all ears :)

Otherwise, things will be paused, until I can get some games in or someone else wishes to take over

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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:55 pm 
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That's a sucky situation, you have my sympathies. :(

I have a few ideas for points cost tweaks (mainly Greater Daemon Hordes, Chaos Spawn, Beasts of Nurgle and some of the Tzeetntch Lesser Daemons), but without having managed to play any games yet it's a bit too theoretical. As soon as I can get some games in you'll get some feedback.

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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:36 pm 
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Hoping for an update on this list. It looks like a lot of fun. Hoping for clarification on what a daemon Lord is.

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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:08 pm 
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Still stuck in a wasteland of no gaming, so people are welcome to take this forward if they want.

Daemon Lords were envisaged as ports of the FW Greater Daemon Characters and to give the list a big nasty.


The things that majorly need looking at are:

Points costs across the list / tinkering with stats to equalise worth

The issue of teleport against different type of opponent

Activation 2+/1+ and the presence of leader for shedding blastmarkers

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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:37 pm 
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I'm the process of building a force simply for the fun of painting it but all the better if its playable too.

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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:46 pm 
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I've been busy with other armies as of late, but I should be able to get in a playtest game next week. I'll submit a report about it.

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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:13 am 
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Been thinking about this list a bunch recently. Read up on the daemon lords, they are nutz! Tougher, ability to summon lesser daemons of the same god. Not sure how to represent this.

Maybe:
+2 DC, warpgate. (Same idea as an eldar storm serpent).

Would help with mobility since most formations are slow and this is almost entirely an assault force. No fliers, no indirect and very little shooting.

Keep the 2+ activation, maybe make the addition for 1+ for formations with greater daemons or give them a +1 to rally. But bump up the strategy rating though. These guys will get slaughtered if they don't have a reasonable chance of going first. Maybe keep expendable on the lesser daemons. Have the list a kinda hybrid tyranid/necrons in style. Anyways just some ideas. I am looking forward to giving it a try in a month or so when I get it all painted.

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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:00 am 
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atension wrote:
Been thinking about this list a bunch recently. Read up on the daemon lords, they are nutz! Tougher, ability to summon lesser daemons of the same god. Not sure how to represent this.

Maybe:
+2 DC, warpgate. (Same idea as an eldar storm serpent).

Would help with mobility since most formations are slow and this is almost entirely an assault force. No fliers, no indirect and very little shooting.

Keep the 2+ activation, maybe make the addition for 1+ for formations with greater daemons or give them a +1 to rally. But bump up the strategy rating though. These guys will get slaughtered if they don't have a reasonable chance of going first. Maybe keep expendable on the lesser daemons. Have the list a kinda hybrid tyranid/necrons in style. Anyways just some ideas. I am looking forward to giving it a try in a month or so when I get it all painted.


These are great ideas. I need to sit down and have a sort through the various ideas mooted over the last couple of pages here and see how they would combine together. Hopefully get something settled enough to give it a try and see how things work in practice a bit.

Life is very busy atm, but will quieten down in Sept / Oct. I'll try and get an update together then that introduces some of the advice given and then we can look at fiddling with points costs / stats.

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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:10 am 
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Also consider dropping the points cost of the core formations to 200 points. They seem a rather over costed.
Rational:

Compare them to a tactical squad; who have a better stat line in that they are good all round where as the different deamons are quite specialized and on a whole less effective. A tactical squad is only 25 points more with a 1+ activation, strategy rating of 5, better averaged stats, free rhinos/pods, TSKNF.

Compare them to Tyranid swarms (probably the closest strategic style to this list): 7/8 units for 200 points. Granted the gaunts are generally worse but they have expendable, good speed, 1+ activation, auto rally, re-spawn and are accompanied by one/two tyrants/warriors that are better stat wise and fearless/leader/RA

Don't get me wrong the Teleportation from Demonic Assault is nice BUT they also have the autokill activation failure special rule too (which is very fluffy). I would say in addition to a points drop and gaining expendable, Demonic Assault should include; you don't need to roll for BMs. Fluff wise it would make sense since they aren't teleporting exactly they are coming via the warp. The instability rule more than makes up for this.

Keep in mind this is all theory crafting I have had no games with this yet.

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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:08 am 
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UberChris and I are going to have another game with this next week. I'll likely take Eldar.

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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:58 am 
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Dave wrote:
I'll likely take Eldar.


And so it begins.

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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 2:28 am 
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gunslinger007 wrote:
Dave wrote:
I'll likely take Eldar.


And so it begins.


Yeah, Eldar will be a tough match up for this list in its current state. Very interested to read the battle report!

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