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World Eaters 3.8

 Post subject: World Eaters 3.8
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:58 am 
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Hi,

I'm the new AC for the WE Chaos Space Marines. I take the last list (3.7 from frogbear) and updated it, so the daemons and some other units match the last version of the Black Legion list.
I did not want to change a lot, so we can keep the in development status of the list.


Edit: Added missing AA value, Added Daemon Prince upgrade to Terminator and Possessed Retinue, corrected typos

Edit 28.10.2014 edited the range of the lascannons of the Helltalons

Edit 20.01.2016 LoB invulnerable save added to match cultist list.



List of changes to version 3.7 (2014 compendium)

yellow - changes to match BL list

purple - other changes

Daemonprince got Commander lost supreme
Devastation class cruiser lost 2nd Pinpoint
Bloodthirster got daemonic focus
Chaos Predator changes stats so it match BL list
Blood Lord as Character upgrade for Skull Lord and Daemon Prince
Dreadclaw 5 points per unit instead of 75 per berserker formation and lost transport option for daemon prince
Greater daemon -25 points und lesser demon -10 points
Defiler + 25 points


I separate the Khorne Support engine in Hellfire Cannon (move 15 cm, 75 cm MW4+ as in LotD)
and Doomblaster
AA for gun typ assault engines


I will test the list at wednesday against Codex Space marines. I think the WE terminators are a little bit to expensive (75 points more than the BL terminators and 15 points per extra) but we will see.
Comments are welcome.


Greetings from Berlin,

Duke


Attachments:
World_Eaters_pd38v2.pdf [105.43 KiB]
Downloaded 386 times


Last edited by Iron Duke on Mon Mar 14, 2016 1:36 pm, edited 8 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: World Eaters 3.8
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:34 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: World Eaters 3.8
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:06 pm 
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Thanks.. I will do my best. I play the new WE in our league. This gives me 8 games against 8 different armies in the following month.


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 Post subject: Re: World Eaters 3.8
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:49 pm 
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Good to see movement on the list.

Couple of changes i'm not sure about the origin of though:

Devastation class cruiser lost 2nd Pinpoint – it never had two to start with? WE3.7 dev has only 1 pinpoint anyway

Chaos Predator changes stats so it match BL list – why? it wasn't a chaos predator, it was a world eater predator, that's a different unit with a different name to denote its different weapons/stats. This was not a continuity problem with the BL list.*

AA for gun typ assault engines – can't see this in the pdf. only units with AA are still aircraft based on your attached document.

*May be you feel the BL stats work better with the lists, that's a different set of reasoning though.

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 Post subject: Re: World Eaters 3.8
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 2:04 pm 
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in the 2014 compendium the WE devastation class cruiser has a 2nd pinpoint attack. Maybe a typo...

I changed the Predator to get in line with the other chaos lists. If there is a demand to change it back, I can do it.

I forgot the change the assalut engines stats.. I edited the first post and attached the corrected file.


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 Post subject: Re: World Eaters 3.8
PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:13 am 
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Hello,
Yesterday I played a game with the 3.8 WE list against Codex Marines.
3000 points
Berserker Retinue
+2 Dreadnaughts, Keeper of Skulls, Pact, Dreadclaws

Berserker Retinue
Rhinos, Blood Lord

Terminator Retinue
4 Terminator, Pact

Chosen Retinue

Assault Engines
4 Gun Engines

Assault Engines
2 Cannon, 2 Gun Engines

Support Engines
4 Hellfire Cannon

Juggernauts of Khorne
7 Juggernauts

Devastation Class Cruiser

Hellblades

Daemon Pool
5 Lesser Daemon, 1 greater Daemon

Codex Marines

4* Scouts + Rhinos
2* Devastator + Dreadnaught in Drop Pods, (one with Supreme)
1* Terminator + 2 Dreadnaughts in Landing Craft
1 Reaver Titan
Strike Cruiser

I will not write a battle report. I did not make photos or write down the activations step by step.. This will only be a short abstract. I tried to take the “new” units like the AA-gun type Assault Engines, the Daemons und the Support Engines.
As my opponent had no Air units except the Landing Craft I have no idea if the AA guns are to powerful. So I will test them in the next battle again. My opponent had a strike cruiser deployed in first turn, so I had to take second turn for my cruiser. In first turn I lost my berserker retinue with the supreme due to a perfect air drop and bombardment from the cruiser and an air assault from the terminator unit. A counterstrike with the Juggernauts against the Landing Craft destroyed it. In the subsequent turn the terminator unit and the 2 devastator units were wiped out by the juggernauts and the two units of Assault engines. The cruiser failed to activate…
My terminators failed. They teleported in 3rd turn near the reaver, but I lost the strategic roll.. So the reaver walked away killing one and broke the unit. With only 4 units the terminators are not very useful… Finally my drop was successful. I dropped near the reaver, sacrificed my Keeper of Skulls summoned the Bloodthirster and some lesser daemons and assaulted the Reaver. After some very good armour saves the Reaver had 2 DC left.

After 4 turn he had only 1 unit of scouts and the reaver but I was not able to claim 2 or more goals. There were some opportunities to win but either I lost the roll of after assaulting or I did not activate the decisive formation.

It was fun to play with this list. The Assault Engines were ok the Terminators not.. I liked the Hellfire Cannons with 15 cm move and the opportunity to garrison and overwatch. Next week I play against White scars.. 4000 points.

Greetings from Berlin,
Duke


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 Post subject: Re: World Eaters 3.8
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 1:24 pm 
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Great to see the list moving forward, I've stickied this thread and removed its predecessor

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 Post subject: Re: World Eaters 3.8
PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 1:10 am 
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G'day Guys

I had my first game with the World Eaters this Saturday night just gone, and I thought I should feed back the results and thoughts my opponent and I had.

World Eaters V3.8

WE Berserker Retinue- 425
Blood Lord, Keeper of Skulls, Daemonic Pact, Rhinos

WE Bike Retinue-300
7 Bike units, Daemonic Pact

WE Terminators Retinue-575
6 Terminator units, Keeper of Skulls, Daemonic Pact

WE Chosen Retinue-200
Rhinos

WE Blood Pack-375

WE Defiler Engines-275
4 Defilers

WE Khorne Assault Engines-250
2 x Guns, 2 x Assault

WE Khorne Support Engines-275
4 Hellfire Cannons

Hellblade Interceptors-200
3 Hellbaldes

Daemon Pool-125
1 Blood Thirster, 5 Bloodletters, 3 Flesh Hounds

Total- 3000
Image

Stigmatus Covenant Cultist / Stigmatus Covenant Cultist 3000

Stigmatus Covenant Coven 540
Slaneesh
Arch-Heretic
Daemon Prince
5xCultist
6xBig Mutant
Chaos Altar
Chaos Hound
10xLand Transporter

Stigmatus Covenant Coven 350
Slaneesh
Chaos Space Marine Aspiring Champion
7xCultist
4xBig Mutant
Traitor Hydras
8xLand Transporter

Stigmatus Covenant Coven 350
Slaneesh
Chaos Space Marine Aspiring Champion
7xCultist
4xBig Mutant
Traitor Hydras
8xLand Transporter

Stigmatus Covenant Coven 310
Slaneesh
Chaos Space Marine Aspiring Champion
11xCultist
Traitor Hydras
6xLand Transporter

Plague Zombie Infestation 175
2D6+3x Plague Zombie

Daemon Scout Titans 275
Slaneesh
Questor

Daemon Scout Titans 450
Slaneesh
2xSubjugator Titan

Daemon Knights 275
Slaneesh
4xDaemon Knight

Daemon Knights 275
Slaneesh
4xDaemon Knight
Total- 3000

Overview of the game.
With only 9 activations the WE set up pretty centrally so they could fan out either way while the Cultists pretty well covered there deployment zone.
Brief overview of the game.
Turn 1: Was pretty uneventful with a few key shooty cultist units failing to activate and the rest moving towards the halfway line. The WE I stacked to one side with triple moves forward try to set up three solid assaults set up for next turn, a lot depended on winning the initiative roll. The Hellfire cannons doubled and snagged two slaanesh knights at long range.

Turn 2: Thankfully the WE won the roll off and commenced assaulting the cultists. The WE bikes with the help of a few lesser demons near destroyed a large coven of cultist, followed by the Blood Lords berserker formation with the blood thirster destroyed another cultist coven. There was some more jockeying around the table for a bit before the WE blood pact launched an assault at the pair of subjugator titans. While the assault was a kamikaze engagement against the all those TK attacks there was the hope the blood pack could maybe destroy one of the crab titans and break the remaining. It wasn't to be with 3 berserkers surviving the engagement broken and both titans still standing. The cultist BTS coven launched a clipping assault against the Blood lords berserkers breaking them and losing me the blood thirster and 1 blood letter with the end phase.

Turn 3: The Terminators turn up near the cultist BTS. WE win initiative again. Terminators summon all remaining lesser daemons (4) and launch an assault on the cultist BTS. The WE win decisively however not by enough to wipe out the unit. With the bite now out of the WE assault the slaanesh titans and knights break most WE units in scoring positions and the game ended in a 0-0 draw. (We chose not to push the 4th turn given time constraints)

Thoughts
This was my first outing with the World Eaters, WOW they really hit like a hammer in close combat. In three combats the WE dished out close to 20 hits! However it is super risky to set up assaults with a force with a small activation count and could pose a real challenge against an opposition with a higher strategy rating.

We both felt the terminators, hellfire cannons, and bikes were pretty good (not sure why the Bikes can't get all character upgrades?) Really happy to see a ground based AA for WE, however I feel consideration should be given for the stalker tank. I think chaos lists in general would benefit from having a standard rhino based AA as they all have access to standard template rhinos, land raiders and predators etc. I don’t believe this would compromise individual flavours of the lists but might avoid the dilemma of working out which unique chaos units can we give an AA shots too. For the World Eaters I see Stalkers tanks being a formation addition for Berseker and Chosen Retinues.

The stats for the legionaries vs the berserkers seem a bit arse about and I am aware these have been discussed quiet a bit already. I know Berserkers are featured the same in several lists, So for discussion sake what if legionaries went 3+cc, 4+ff with heavy bolters giving 5+ ap 30cm. Berserkers with 3+cc 5+ff with 1+ea and fearless. I believe chosen could also share that Legionaries stat line with just the addition of scout. When compared to a standard chaos marine the heavy bolter allows for a shot however forgoes the AT shot for the additional extra close combat increase to 3+ which still keeps the theme of the world eaters. Berserkers are considered the worst of the cult marines so giving them the +1 ea would help bring them up to par.

Please take my thoughts in the intention they are given and that is to help grow and balance the list without losing its flavour. I am certainly appreciative of all those who have put hard work into this already. I am more than happy to keep trying things out and will keep offering the feedback here.

Cheers

Mic


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 Post subject: Re: World Eaters 3.8
PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 8:00 am 
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Hi Mic,

thanks for the report. As you said, WE are a real hammer if you can get to base contact. Otherwise they are weaker than the standard chaos marine.
The stats of the berserkers are fixed, because they are in some different lists. (BL, RC and UK WE) The BL list is approved. Maybe we can discuss your suggestions with steve54.
To you think the WE need more shooting power? With the demon engines and the lord of battle there is already a lot of shooting in this close combat oriented list. Adding bolters to the legionaries would possible unbalance the list.

I played the list 3.8 two times the last weeks against Marines and I nearly destroyed them (only appr. 5-10 units left on the table) in both battles.

Don't know if we should add the stalker. It's a relative new vehicle. I gave the gun type assault engines the AA to make them a little bit "better"... otherwise they lose against all the other formations you can choose.

greetings from Berlin,
Duke


Last edited by Iron Duke on Thu Nov 13, 2014 9:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: World Eaters 3.8
PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 9:33 am 
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Thanks for the report Mic Fair.

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 Post subject: Re: World Eaters 3.8
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:23 am 
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@Tiny-Tim, Cheers mate

@Iron Duke, I take on board what your saying with the list. I will get some more games using some different units and I'll report back here. I believe it would be worth discussing the infantry further down the track. Anyway keep up the good work.

Cheers

Mic


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 Post subject: Re: World Eaters 3.8
PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 3:37 am 
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Am currently building a WE list simply because I really like the look of the units and will have fun painting them. Have a couple questions though. How effective is a drop list when the pods don't have Deathwind launchers and is it worth doing? Shouldn't legionnaires have ranged weapons? What are people using for slaughterfiends? Would you consider including the harbringer bomber?

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 Post subject: Re: World Eaters 3.8
PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:23 am 
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Good Job Iron Duke. Looking good.

Do us a favour, first post: just fix up my name lol!

atension: the drop list is quite effective if you get a good drop and don't run into a lot of firepower. The CC effectiveness will usually sway the battle in your favour if you can survive the initial bombardment of sheeting.

It really is just a game of chess trying to work out your strategy like most things ;)

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 Post subject: Re: World Eaters 3.8
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 1:25 pm 
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@ frogbear I fixed the name typo.

The drop can be devastating if you drop at the right position and don't ran into much overwatch fire. As frogbear said, with the good cc value you score enough hits to win most likely the combat.
This should be a pure CC list so no shooting for the core troops.
I used the slaughterfiends only once. I took defilers as proxies. We can think about including the harbinger as heavy bomber. For me the WE/aircraft section is good enough with the Lord of battle, scorpions and banelord titan.


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 Post subject: Re: World Eaters 3.8
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 2:38 pm 
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Hi,
Yesterday started our epic league. We play with 3 open lists from with you pick one before the game. My first game was against brumbears orcs. He loves oddboys with soopa guns, so all his lists had plenty of Macro weapon templates.
His list:
Stormboyz Warhorde 175
7xStormboyz

2* Stormboyz Warhorde 150
6xStormboyz

Big Kult of Speed 350
8xSkorcha
8xWarbikes

Big Blitz Brigade 375
Warlord
2xOddboy
2xFlakwagon
6xGunwagon
Warbikes

2* Big Blitz Brigade 350
2xOddboy
2xFlakwagon
6xGunwagon

2* Big Mekboy Gunzmob 325
2xOddboy
10xBig Gunz

3 * Fighta Squadron 150
3xFighta- Bommer


I used my 3rd list, centered around 2 Khorne Lord of Battle. With his lots of templates and overwatch fire from his Big Guns my drop list or the Infantry assault list would be suboptimal.
Bike Retinue (325)
8 Bikes, Skull Lord, Pact

Berserker Retinue (475)
4 Legionaires, 4 Berserkers, Blood Lord, 2 Rhinos, 2 Landraider

Chosen Retinue (200)
4 Chosen, Skull Lord, Rhinos
Assault Engines (250)
4 Gun Assault Engines

Assault Engines (250)
2 Gun Assault Engines, 2 Cannon Assault Engines

Support Engines (350)
4 Hellcannon, 2 Dreadnaughts

Juggernauts of Khorne (300)
6 Juggernauts

2* Lord of Battle (425)
Demon Pool (0)
1 lesser Daemons (from pact)

As usual no detailed battle report. I won the strategy roll in the first 3 turns but lost my demon due to a roll of 1 in the first turn.
The table was clustered with some ruins and woods with a large ruin complex on my left side. I started south. I placed my objectives at the table edges to prevent him from placing his Big Guns in good fire positions.

Attachment:
table.png
table.png [ 8.37 KiB | Viewed 3491 times ]


Brown – hills
Gray – ruins
Light green - woods

The orc had 1 blitz brigade and stormboys left, right and in the middle. The cult of speed was between hill and large ruin complex and the 2 big guns in the wood at his blitz on overwatch and between the hill and the wood.
I had my troops centered at my blitz. Bikes and 1 Lord of Battle was on the far right, the juggernauts at the far left.
First Turn
My Lord of battles doubled forward, shooting some tanks and big guns. Bikes and Berserker hide behind the hill and the right wood, waiting for some dead oddboys. Juggernauts were shoot by one blitzbrigade loosing 3, breaking and blocking the cap on the left flank between table edge and ruins. One demon engine formation double forward behind the center ruins but is broken by one blitz brigade. The other demon engine formation doubles to get some shoots at his Aircraft. He ZOC the center Lord of battle with one of the storm boys and shoot at him with blitz brigade and big guns for one damage. My chosen entered the ruin complex to block the path for his storm boys. The cult of speed doubled forward, in front of my support engines. AA Fire does nothing all the game..
Juggs rally, first assault engines remain broken

Second Turn
Second assault engines assault the stormboys, zoccing the enter Lord of Battle, and wiped them out. The Lord of Battle retains and shot at the center blitz brigade. All hits are saved. At the left flank the blitz brigade moved back and shot at the Juggs for no hit. One Airstrike later the Juggs are broken. The support engines sustains at the cult of speed, which assaulted the support engines after an airstrike. After some good savings rolls, the cult of speed is wiped out and the support engines are broken with 3 casualties. The right Lord of Battle sustains at the right blitz brigade and breaks them. My berserker and the bikes are still hiding. The chosen and the storm boys at the left flank didn’t do much.. the center blitz brigade and the big guns shooting at the center Lord of Battle, inflicting one damage and breaking the nearby second assault engines.
Second assault Engines rally, first assault engines, juggernauts and support engines remain broken
Orc rallies everything

Third Turn
Center Lord of Battle sustains at the center blitz brigade, breaking them. Right Lord of Battle moving forward, shooting at the big guns at the blitz.
Berserker taking all three objectives on my side. Second assault Engines doubling forward, shooting at the center big guns for no effect and are broken in return. Left blitz brigade double through the ruin complex (terrain tests passed) and shots at my berserkers for no effect. Storm boy doubled forward in front of the broken support engines at the left objective (in the wood on my side) My bikes doubled forward behind the small ruin near the right objective on his table side. The right Blitz brigade doubled to my left side shooting at the support engines for no effect.
Both assault engines, juggernauts rally
Orc rallies blitz brigade

Fourth Turn
First time that the orc won the strategy roll. Big Guns at the Blitz tried to sustains but fail, shooting at the second assault engines and breaking them. Center Lord of battle shots at the left blitz brigade and breaks them. (killing the Warlord) Big guns in the center failed to sustain.. My bikes assault the right storm boys wiping them out and claim the right objective. Right Lord of battle doubled to the blitz (still defended by the big guns) breaking the just rallied center blitz brigade. The last blitz brigade failed to double and sheds some blastmarkers. My juggernauts marshal and moved a little bit forward. His last storm boys feared an attack (his last unit in my table half) and doubled away but with that move I had all objective in my half under control. My chosen tripled forward claiming the left objective. With that I won 2:0 (T&H; DtF).

greetings from Berlin,
duke


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