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[Experimental] New Chaos Feral Titan List

 Post subject: [Experimental] New Chaos Feral Titan List
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 7:53 am 
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Hey everyone and welcome to the new Chaos Titan list.

First of all I would like to acknowledge madd0ct0r for his work so far on this list and I hope I can continue the good work he has started. This list has been a unique list which I am trying to retain while making a few changes here and there along the way. I will be making changes along the way focusing on specific points for game testing so we know what needs to be changed for whatever reason. I look forward to seeing how the community reacts to the list and the discussion that will follow.

For the first list I have kept much the same from the original but have changed the Epithets and changed them to Chaos Marks. These are starting points for the marks to see what tweaks need to be made as they can and will affect all other parts of the list. The next key area I want to look at is weapons.

I have also limited the amount of choices in the army trying to make it a more Titan themed army but I am looking at reintroducing the ability to summon as I think that would be a unique aspect of this titan list.

So please read and comment away with your thoughts (and any typos there are as I'm sure there are some haha) and lets get the list under way

I will always keep the most up to date list here on the first post.

(Have edited it and put it up as a pdf not a word doc)

Attachment:
Chaos-feral-titan-list-1.0.pdf [430.71 KiB]
Downloaded 353 times


Attachments:
Chaos-feral-titan-list-1.0.doc [127.5 KiB]
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Last edited by Caz on Sun Nov 01, 2015 8:19 am, edited 2 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] New Chaos Feral Titan List
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 8:05 am 
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G'day Caz,

I think it's fantastic you've picked this list up and your passion over the last couple of weeks to get it moving and developing, the many nights brainstorming and playing the previous list has been admirable.

All the very best with the list, It's fantastic to see another Aussie contributing.

Now lets get some games & reports done.

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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] New Chaos Feral Titan List
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 8:33 am 
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Firstly let me say I think that Chaos Titan’s is a cool concept with some interesting fluff and a strong theme. That said I don’t think any of those things have anything to do with designing a list… With that in mind here are my thoughts.

Unit Choices/structure

I think they all make sense and thought he initial structure of 2 big titans to 3 smaller ones wierded me out I think the balance works though it will cookie cutter the builds a bit.
Soulgrinders are the only thing that seems out of place to me. All of the support formations seem to be generic upgrades (undivided if you will) so these guys seem out of place. Personally I don’t think they add anything and would just cut them.
Acolytes – Have Deamonic pact but there are no daemons in the list… Would it be better to have them be a guardsman style unit like the militia units that support Sisters of Battle? Or just cheap pus troops to flesh out the activation count and potentially sit on an objective? For 150pts make them half a unit of DKOK troops?
Support choice points values – They are all over the shop compared to Black Legion – Some more expensive, some cheaper. I would imagine a fluff justification put forward at some point in the past or perhaps just a cut/paste from older versions of BL. I would suggest for consistency across chaos lists that these units should just mirror the points (approved) from the parent list.
Planes – I wonder if they should have access to Helltallons and Hellblades? No real reason why.
Weapons and upgrades
Most of these look fine to me. The stats always look nuts to me but that’s from the mindset of imperial/ork titan armies which are pretty generic. With no real access to Macro/TK I can see why a gun with 9 shots is ok. Not sure if you should have a single weapon spam cost like in normal Titans?
Also I would probably limit the Energy Flail to (0-1) but that’s largely because of my suggestions for Marks (below)
The biggest exploit I can see at this second is the Daemon knights – They can take any one warhound weapon… so that means energy flail… 6 attacks each… Seems huge for a fast moving DC2 scout!

Marks
I think the ones you have here are a big step in the right direction, they make more sense than the previous ones which were themey but complicated.
A few changes I would suggest –

Khorne – Currently seems crappy for 100pts considering that for 125 the nurgle gets +2DC (which means +2 attacks) that can be used anywhere and doesn’t have a huge downside like no sustaining. I would probably leave it at 100pts but change to +1DC and CC weapons (thus limiting it to 1 weapon) gain Macro) I wouldn’t put a downside on that.
Slannesh – 125pts for 5cms of movement is waaay expensive. Ork Gargants pay 25pts for the same privilege… I’d drop it to 100pts and add an extra bonus like -1 to hit in CC or something.
Nurgle – I like the option but I don’t think 1DC is worth more than 50pts, so for 2DC I’d make it 100pts with the same negative of can’t triple that you have.
Tzeench – I’d leave as is but drop to 125pts.
Have you considered an ‘undivided’ option? Given that you MUST take a mark it seems reasonable. I’d be thinking something like:
Undivided (50pts) Counts as a leader and allows you to reroll 1 failed activation per game, or something like that. Really just spitballing that idea.

Anyway great stuff, hope it comes out awesome.


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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] New Chaos Feral Titan List
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:29 am 
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Woop! Time for some testing

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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] New Chaos Feral Titan List
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 2:48 pm 
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Great work!

But the way you've handled formation restrictions is kinda weird. Why not have the same format as the AMTL list??

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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] New Chaos Feral Titan List
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 2:52 pm 
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Typo: Feral titan upgrades, not ferla titan

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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] New Chaos Feral Titan List
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 5:01 pm 
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mordoten wrote:
Great work!

But the way you've handled formation restrictions is kinda weird. Why not have the same format as the AMTL list??


Why not just have the AMTL list with the word chaos added in front of every unit? :)


I'm sad to see the reduced formation initiative with b2b bonuses gone. The epithets I can live with - they needed pruning badly, as did the formation options. But i'd like to see the list play differently on the table from the AMTL.

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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] New Chaos Feral Titan List
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:49 pm 
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madd0ct0r wrote:
I'm sad to see the reduced formation initiative with b2b bonuses gone. The epithets I can live with - they needed pruning badly, as did the formation options. But i'd like to see the list play differently on the table from the AMTL.


A couple of non god specific epithets might be nice. I quite liked the different flavour the b2b bonus gave too.

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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] New Chaos Feral Titan List
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 10:55 pm 
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Thanks for checking out the lists and your thoughts guys
Beefcake I will address your post in more detail later but again thank you for your time and thoughts regarding the list

As for the weapon load outs they will change over time but will not resemble the AMTL list as mentioned you can always play them with chaos Titan models

In regards to the base to base activation I agree that it was a unique flavour but it opened up a lot of issues in the list
Firstly that you had units like defiler and chaos marines activating on higher then normal roll and also exploited the Titans to much to clipping assaults in the games I played with the Titans before the changes the rule was never really used anyway and stopped me from taking the units that would be punished by them


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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] New Chaos Feral Titan List
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 10:57 pm 
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As for the marks I have an idea of expanding the mark table to give each mark 2 or 3 mini options to build from to customise your Titans a bit more so would add in an undivided table aswell


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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] New Chaos Feral Titan List
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 10:59 pm 
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As for the marks I have an idea of expanding the mark table to give each mark 2 or 3 mini options to build from to customise your Titans a bit more so would add in an undivided table aswell


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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] New Chaos Feral Titan List
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 6:16 am 
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Sounds good Caz. As a mono nurgle Deaths Head player I'm looking forward to a little more variety in the options! Can't wait to see what you come up with!

Slaves to Darkness was a very cool rule but yeah I see your point, the fodder is intermingled and forces the titan to break, which is kind of the opposite of its intent. You almost need to have only certain formations to benefit from it, but have the expendable rule (or similar) when they do. But potentially that would open up all sorts of cans of shenanigans I'd say.

The older list had marines at init 4+ with a potential +2 when b2b. So worse than the standard 1+ most csm get. I guess you could put some conditions on it like it can't be used to retain or similar. Or drop it completely like you did...

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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] New Chaos Feral Titan List
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 7:01 am 
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OK Beekcake here we go :)

Unit structure - was not sure about would be best suited so thought this would work well to start and adapt as we test it out

Unit pricing - will all be brought into line in the next update - agree about needing consistency

Acolytes - The list used to have demons and forgot to remove that part. In saying that though still tossing up the idea of re adding demons to the list as its a chaos flavour that could bring uniqueness to the list. Contemplating an upgrade that will allow titans to summon demons as well (just working a few things over)

Planes - haven't really thought much about adding other types but you have got me thinking so watch this space on that one

Weapons - Yes the high shot value on the guns atm is to compensate for no long range MW TK like AMTL have. Will be looking at adding 30-45cm MW guns and FF based weaponry as well as MW and TK on CC

Marks - will look at splitting these up as mentioned in to smaller marks that you can pick and choose and build your own mark. Again also looking at having mark specific weapons eg Axe of Khorne or Flicking Fire something or other for Tzeentch etc.

Demon Knights - This unit will be looked very closely at during testing to get their balance right.


Will be getting testing in this weekend and hopefully others will to so we can see different view points on the list and where to move to next


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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] New Chaos Feral Titan List
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 7:41 pm 
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Totally accept what you say on the clipping making the b2b rule much more painful then intended. Also fully agree on removing it rather then using expendable.

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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] New Chaos Feral Titan List
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 7:03 am 
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Hey guys so getting a bat rep in tonight. This is a list I am trialing to see how the marks go and testing the list formation structure. I am sure there is probably better lists but this is just a place to start

Reaver 1 - mark of tzeentch, daemonic possession (sup com), 2 x rocket launcher, twin hell mortar = 855 points

Reaver 2 - mark of khorne, daemonic taint, aura (inspiring and leader), energy flail, rocket launcher, twin hell mortar - 800 points

Warhound - mark of slaanesh, talons, cluster missile - 275 points

Demon Knights - 2x cluster missile, 2x hell mortar - 350 points
Defiler pack - 250 points
Chosen -125 points
Chosen - 125 points
Hell blades - 200 points


Last edited by Caz on Fri Nov 06, 2015 7:10 am, edited 2 times in total.

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