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Emperor's Children 4.1 (NetEA APPROVED)

 Post subject: Re: Emperor's Children 4.1 (NetEA APPROVED)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 2:45 am 
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mordoten wrote:
Haha, okaaaayyyyy.... ::)


The dismissive mockery really nails home your point.

There's a 1 in 24 chance that your 550 points will amount to nothing for every AA hit. That goes down to 1 in 16 for two hits and it doesn't get better after that. Against a good player you're going to be coming in with at least a BM so all the THawk nets you is a late turn assault.

Against lots of AA it's not the best way to use them. You're free to disagree but don't be an ass when someone points out that your generalization is just that.

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 Post subject: Re: Emperor's Children 4.1 (NetEA APPROVED)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 4:30 am 
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mordoten wrote:
Why would you teleport them in though? You fly them in in a thunderhawk and pick them up with another them. Thats the best way to use them without a doubt.


When we're talking about a 275 point unit that then has 400 points worth off transports to give a pick up/drop off cycle, I'm not sure it really matters whether the base unit is made 25 points more expensive. We're already at 675 points...


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 Post subject: Re: Emperor's Children 4.1 (NetEA APPROVED)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 7:51 am 
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It was a 15 activation Baran army with Deathstrikes and a shadowsword. There is literally no way you could possibly do the double thunderhawk trick because as soon as you land one he Deathstrikes it or shadows words it. . And you can't out activate Baran with any sort of marines unless you deal with activations somehow. You can't deal with the AA because he has 60cm range and overwatch and the best thing you could use would be the thundehawks... Normal planes would get shot etc. Teleporting was the best odds possibility in this case.

Chaos terminators are perfectly priced at 275. There are pros and cons for both teleporting and thunderhawking and you don't need to bump the price of termies because you are paying for a thunderhawk.

Even more so in red corsairs where you already pay a price for taking thunder hawks, it's called no War Engines. Given that ems children just got approved I'm not sure why we are debating changes when the panel just agreed it doesn't need any. More importantly why would you bump the points in red corsairs when that same panel just agreed that termies/thunderhawk doesn't need a points bump even in a list with access to good daemons and war engines.


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 Post subject: Re: Emperor's Children 4.1 (NetEA APPROVED)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:34 am 
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let's not clutter up the EC thread with more debate, CaptPiett has done a great job getting the list to approved status and I don't want this to devolve into any kind of point scoring debate any more than he does, I raised a simple concern I had with a unit in the list, he didn't instantly reject the concern and in fact took the feedback from someone who has played the list a few times, further testing will bear out whether a points bump for having the air assault option in addition to the teleport one is required, for my part and because I have my own list to develop (the red corsairs) I want to test the terminators out with a small points bump, that way I will be able to contribute to testing the red corsairs while also providing useful feedback to this list, I have a game with the red corsairs tomorrow night, I'll feed back my experiences here if they're relevant, but would ask for debate around that list to continue in the correct thread

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 Post subject: Re: Emperor's Children 4.1 (NetEA APPROVED)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 1:01 pm 
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True enough though I guess the other thing to consider is that chaos already pays the same points as loyalists for the thunderhawk which Is clearly better in the loyal list. So you could argue the at any price bump for terminators in any chaos list with thunder Hawks is already paid in the price of the hawk. It's more vulnerable on ground than the loyalist one due to blast markers so if you want to take advantage of ground assault options you do pay for it that way.

Food for thought.


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 Post subject: Re: Emperor's Children 4.1 (NetEA APPROVED)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 6:57 am 
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What's more fun than an alien probe? Reading up on Emperor's Children, that's what!

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 Post subject: Re: Emperor's Children 4.1 (NetEA APPROVED)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 1:32 pm 
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Great write-up and pics, Beefcake (somehow this seems the most appropriate thread to write "beefcake", haha).
Well written and some great pointers. I'm glad you guys appreciate the list and what it brings to the table.

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 Post subject: Re: Emperor's Children 4.1 (NetEA APPROVED)
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 10:20 pm 
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hey CaptPiett, what is your view on the daemon prince plus thunderhawk situation?

got a bit of a pickle over on red corsair ranch and ah wuz hopin y'all could just mosey on over and share yer thoughts? I really couldn't give a rat's a$$ what we do but I'd like consistency across lists

thankya kindly

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 Post subject: Re: Emperor's Children 4.1 (NetEA APPROVED)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 2:47 pm 
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rgr

I'll pontificate over yonder on your RC thread. Bottom line is I think the DP should take up 1 transport slot.

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 Post subject: Re: Emperor's Children 4.1 (NetEA APPROVED)
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:51 am 
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So, I actually have most of the models so that i could convert and build an EC list. I like slaanesh and no one else in sweden plays the list that I know of. But it would be a big project with many hours of paintning. So should I do that?

The more I think about it the less I feel the list brings to the table tactically. Especially compared to regular marines? I am looking forward to be proven wrong though!

Basically the EC like all chaos has to take hordes of regular marines without ATSKNF. That is not brilliant?
They loose some of the best loyalist units - in particular land speeders which are one of the games better units.

They gain good stuff too of course. Mainly I think the Deamon Prince, the slaanesh titans that seem fun and possibly demons (though the slaanesh ones are not very good and you loose activations by taking many).

So on balance why take them over loyalists? And are they fun and challangening to play?


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 Post subject: Re: Emperor's Children 4.1 (NetEA APPROVED)
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:00 pm 
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partisan_nick wrote:
S
So on balance why take them over loyalists? And are they fun and challangening to play?

This is not EC specific, but demons are amazing, assuming you enjoy aggressive assault playstyle.
You lose ATSKNF (also amazing) and gain demons (amazing). Many of the chaos lists also have very nice war engines.

Maybe you lose or downgrade an activation to buy demons, but you then have the flexibility to turn a small or very damaged formation into a real assault threat at will.

You can always build your chaos to represent EC, but make them with the flexibility to run Black Legion or Red Corsair lists with the same miniatures.

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 Post subject: Re: Emperor's Children 4.1 (NetEA APPROVED)
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:45 pm 
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partisan_nick wrote:
So on balance why take them over loyalists? And are they fun and challangening to play?


We have fun with them, that's going to come down to your personal preference though. I like the smaller formations and the flexibility you have with regards to their composition. As to challenging, you have already lamented on a few things they're missing from the loyalist list. I would think that would make them challenging for you (you no longer have the ATSKNF and Land Speeder crutches).

Apocolocyntosis wrote:
You can always build your chaos to represent EC, but make them with the flexibility to run Black Legion or Red Corsair lists with the same miniatures.


This is a good point, and it's how I approach my armies. Build for the core list, and then add in the stuff you need for the variant lists later.

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 Post subject: Re: Emperor's Children 4.1 (NetEA APPROVED)
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:37 am 
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I will probably proxy them first for a few battles to see if I like the feeling of them. I guess I am a bit surprised that what I tought of as a small elite army always comes to 40-50 stands + vehicles when I put armies togehter. I usally always play the horde armies in all systems so Orks and IG in Epic. And this was to be the opposite.

The smaller formations compared to other traitors combined with the Thunderhawks is of course the huge boons and advantages int his list compared to other traitors.

I could base them 3/base to retain a bit of the elite feel and ease of painting.

cheers!


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 Post subject: Re: Emperor's Children 4.1 (NetEA APPROVED)
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:01 am 
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You can easily go below 30 stands of infantry with Emperor's Children. Just start adding some War Engines and Daemons...

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 Post subject: Re: Emperor's Children 4.1 (NetEA APPROVED)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:10 am 
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I noticed there were no Defilers/Debasers (Defilefers with sonic weapons) in the list. I recently added 8 of them to my chaos forces, and wanted to add them to my EC army, but alas no. Gotta love 3D printing though.

I also got some 3D printed Helldrakes. Any chance of rules for them added into the list, or would that make them un-thematic, and too powerful?

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