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[Developmental] Traitor Titan Legions (TTL) v1.9

 Post subject: [Developmental] Traitor Titan Legions (TTL) v1.9
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:22 pm 
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Welcome to the Traitor Titan Legion list, which is intended to cover all your traitor titan legion needs, regardless of which Ruinous Power(s) you're currently in cahoots with, or if you worship Chaos Undivided. The list allows for mixing of different powers, as well as playing one power purely (which is actually strongly encouraged). And everything can summon daemons, which is kind of neat.

The main issue facing the list at the moment is that it is a War Engine list. Like most such lists, draws are unfortunately quite frequent. Through the versions I've tried to come up with different ways of dealing with this.

Haven't been playtesting the list in a while, but I'm optimistic that will change in the near future as I get TTL done for TTS (Tabletop Simulator). If anyone gets the TTL on the table, please mention how it went in the comments. If you can do a battle report, all the better!

For those interested, here's the previous battle reports for older versions of the list.

vs Gargants
viewtopic.php?f=84&t=32273

vs White Scars
viewtopic.php?f=84&t=32248

vs Squats
viewtopic.php?f=84&t=32144

vs White Scars
viewtopic.php?f=84&t=32201

vs Dark Eldar
viewtopic.php?f=84&t=32178

Update 30/3 2017: Version 1.6

Another big update. There's a new Chaos Undivided Support weapon (the "Ritlaxi Cyclone"), the Havoc Warp Missiles are a bit different, and Chaos Emperor titans can now have up to three Support weapons. This is to make what is now a very expensive choice more relevant and coherent on the battlefield.

A probably even greater change is that there's now the possibility to take bigger, more resilient units of Lesser Daemon Engine formations: All can now boost their numbers by two for a slightly discounted cost. This change is because I think there's a need for greater variety in that section, and also makes more types of builds possible. There's now an opportunity to play a pretty diverse Chaos Knight's themed list (as long as one can keep the factional animosity in check!).

Lastly, some changes to the Greater Daemon Engine formation point-rebates, which now scale with overall cost and numbers.


Update 12/7 2017: Version 1.7

Been a while, and I hope that people have got around to playing a match or two!

Quite a few changes in this version. The TTL should now see a much needed buff across the board.

-> The Emperor Titan now has the Greater Daemon Possession upgrade as a default. So if you buy a Warlord you can upgrade him too, and thus get two Supreme Commanders (which is actually covered in the rules. You get two re-rolls). That'll cost you a cool 1975 points tho (for a maximum of 7 activations in 3000 points).
-> Each Greater Daemon Possession bought allows one extra choice in the Lesser Daemons Section. Now makes slightly more sense take a Warlord and/or Emperor Titan.
-> Lesser Daemon Engines are cheaper across the board. The list struggles mightily with activations, and the titans don't have the range or firepower of the AMTL. The Cannons of Khorne have been introduced to give Khorne a garrison and some long range shooting.
-> Slaanesh Knights now have the same stats as in NetEA Emperor's Children, except the Hell-Striders retained their Scout ability.
-> Lesser Daemons cost 15 points again. The fact that the various daemonic beasts cost 2 points to summon really makes lesser daemons more balanced compared to other lists. Also, Flesh Hounds and Daemonettes on Steeds got a 4+ save.

Was tempted to change the Greater Brass Scorpion to the Brass Scorpion stats of the new Red Corsairs list, but decided against it as it would make a mess of list balance. Also, the fluff allows for a lot of different designs and sizes.


Update 4/8 2017: Version 1.8

After having done some thinking and some playtesting, here's another update!

Eye of the Gods is slightly cheaper.
Some Greater Daemon Engines now costs less to buy in multiples.
Slaneesh Daemon Knights are now one entry.
Hell-Scourges and Chaos Knights can now be bought in pairs.
Daemon Assault Engines now slightly cheaper.
The Defilers are now slightly cheaper. The Nurgle version has Infiltrate again but got a CC penalty instead.
Hell Blades have been changed to reflect other NetEA lists (15cm range, but AA5+)
Daemonettes on Steeds now have 20cm move and Infiltrate like in NetEA EC


Update 7/2 2018: Version 1.9

Update time!

The Unity of Command faction specific rule now applies to all formations, not just those with 3+ Initiative.
The list now has 3 in Strategy Rating that's not tied to the Unity of Command rule.
Each Greater Daemon Possession now allows for an extra choice in the Greater Daemon Engine section as well.
Barrage Tail now has 15cm range.
Flamers of Tzeentch costs 2 to summon instead of 1 for Tzeentch formations, and 3 instead of 2 for Chaos Undivided formations. If Flamers were to get more reasonable stats, this would obviously be reversed.

As usual, all significant changes are marked in purple.

Update 15/4 2018: Version 1.9

TTL can now be found on the Army Forge (for the moment as "Chaos Titans")! https://traitor-legion.appspot.com/choo ... tans_NETEA


Attachments:
Traitor Titan Legions 1_9.pdf [97.13 KiB]
Downloaded 49 times
Traitor Legions QRS 1_9.pdf [179.49 KiB]
Downloaded 29 times

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Last edited by Mrdiealot on Tue May 29, 2018 2:38 pm, edited 46 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Legion (CTL) list
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:41 pm 
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woo!

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Last edited by IJW Wartrader on Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Legion (CTL) list
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:05 pm 
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Grattis! Och lycka till!

Congrats! And good luck!

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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Legion (CTL) list
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:42 pm 
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Good one. Nice to see this moving along

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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Legion (CTL) list
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:54 pm 
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Titans + Daemons = LOVE <3


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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Legion (CTL) list
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:30 pm 
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We cant get enough chaos titans, especially the Slaanesh scouts.

Looking forward to see more


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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Legion (CTL) list
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:47 pm 
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Mrdiealot wrote:
The "Animosity" rule from Lost and the Damned is virtually certain to be included.

As far as I'm aware this rule now only exists in the NetEA Stigmatus Coven list and the (relatively unused) EpicUK LatD list. It's been removed from/not used in Lost and the Damned Redux, Red Corsairs, Ghallamore Incursion and all variants of Black Legion.

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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Legion (CTL) list
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:43 pm 
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My dearest wish for an army is a list in which taking 2-3 Khorne Lords of Battle is possible/remotely usable. Mostly because I really need an excuse to make some Lords of Battle. Think they'll be included here?


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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Legion (CTL) list
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:01 am 
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mordoten wrote:
Grattis! Och lycka till!

Congrats! And good luck!


Tack!

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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Legion (CTL) list
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:17 am 
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IJW Wartrader wrote:
Mrdiealot wrote:
The "Animosity" rule from Lost and the Damned is virtually certain to be included.

As far as I'm aware this rule now only exists in the NetEA Stigmatus Coven list and the (relatively unused) EpicUK LatD list. It's been removed from/not used in Lost and the Damned Redux, Red Corsairs, Ghallamore Incursion and all variants of Black Legion.


Well, we play the LatD quite a lot in my group, and it's actually a very strong list. But it is odd in many respects, and it would be interesting to know if the update to the Epic UK version I've heard rumors of will keep animosity (or "factions" as the rule is actually named). One reason I like it is because of fluff (it first appeared in the Rogue Trader era with the first chaos books). I can see "mortal" chaos getting along, but daemons really can't stand each other... And chaos titans are very daemonic in nature, they're pretty much gigantic daemon engines.

Also, perhaps more importantly, it presents players with interesting trade-offs in army composition and tactics. I think the list is going to be easier to balance as well. Trying to take the best bits from all chaos powers will make your list a lot more unstable.

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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Legion (CTL) list
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:26 am 
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NoisyAssassin wrote:
My dearest wish for an army is a list in which taking 2-3 Khorne Lords of Battle is possible/remotely usable. Mostly because I really need an excuse to make some Lords of Battle. Think they'll be included here?


I'm a bit on the fence about daemon engines in general, with chaos it's real easy to get way too many choices into the lists. Maybe they could replace the option to take Khorne Warhounds as in E-UK World Eaters. They're a really fun and not very OP unit (no walker, no shields), so I'll definitely think about it.

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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Legion (CTL) list
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:49 am 
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Agreed on the Factions rule. It's probably easier To manage anyway in a Titan list where you tend to have a low number of small factions.

Also agreed on Daemon Engines in general - stuff like Silver Towers or Contagions wouldn't really fit. Lords of Battle and Slaaneshi Subjugators and Questors, on the other hand...

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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Legion (CTL) list
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:59 am 
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Version 1.0 is up, and can be found in the first post as normal.

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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Legion (CTL) list
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 5:26 am 
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Great thanks


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 Post subject: Re: [Experimental] Chaos Titan Legion (CTL) list
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:29 am 
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Excellent! I really like the overall feel, apart from a concern that lists will have to load up on Lesser Daemon Engine Formations due to Greater Daemon Engines being limited to one per Battle Titan. That will need some playtesting, though.


I assume from some of the weapon stats and from the criticals that this is mostly based on the EpicUK lists?

The NetEA Warhound equivalents, Lords of Battle, Subjugators and Questors only take damage from criticals if the random move makes them walk into something. The EpicUK crits are probably more balanced, I just wanted to check this is intentional.


Nurgle weapons also have some discrepancies from the current Death Guard list, so it might be worth changing either the stats or the names:

CTL Decay Cannon: 30cm 4xAP3+, Disrupt
DG Decay Cannon: 30cm 3xAP3+/AT5+, Disrupt

CTL Putrifier Cannon: 45cm 4xAP3+/AT5+, Disrupt
DG Putrifier Cannon: 60cm 4xAP3+/AT5+, Disrupt

The Corruption Cannon and Heavy Plague Mortar already have different names from the Liquefier Cannon and Plague Mortar so that's not an issue.


Rules Q: all formations have Daemonic Pact? That might be worth spelling out more clearly.

Army Q: AA coverage is only from the Heretek Shrine and Temple? EDIT - and aircraft, obviously!

Army Q: when you pick a Battle Titan, do the Greater and Lesser Daemon Engine formations have to be from the same faction? For example a Nurgle Chaos Reaver Titan and an Undivided Chaos Warhound?

Unit Q: Defilers have a smaller main gun. I assume this is to make the Titans more popular for range? 10cm move on the Nurgle ones means they will never be taken, but I'm not sure what to do differently. Maybe lose Walker?

Typo: the Emperor, Warlord and Reaver Titans have Carpace Weapons, this should be Carapace Weapons.

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