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What change do you think is appropriate, if any, to Dark Eldar Barge of Pleasure/ground based AA?
Poll ended at Sat Nov 05, 2016 6:05 pm
No change to Barge of Pleasure 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Add 2x 30cm AA5+ for free 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Add 2x 30cm AA5+ for +25 points 18%  18%  [ 4 ]
Add 2x 30cm AA5+ for +50 points 18%  18%  [ 4 ]
Something else (please specify) 5%  5%  [ 1 ]
Dark Eldar shouldn't have ground based AA 59%  59%  [ 13 ]
Total votes : 22

Dark Eldar Lets Poll 2: Barge of Pleasure

 Post subject: Dark Eldar Lets Poll 2: Barge of Pleasure
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:05 pm 
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Dark Eldar Lets Poll 2: Barge or Pleasure.

The Dark Eldar Barge of Pleasure has gained a bit of a reputation as being a death trap and an unpopular choice in the Dark Eldar list.

I personally dont think they are without utility as they have a reasonable weapon loadout and a pretty reasonable defence with DC3 and 2 shadowfields. I do think that reducing them to 100 points, as they have done in the EUK list, is prudent. Nevertheless they rarely feature in my builds despite their 100 points.

However, if they were to be changed would the community consider adding an AA option to the barge as an idea worth playtesting? Please note that this thread is not talking about the Vessel of Pain, only the transport barge.

I am aware this also opens the broader topic of Dark Eldar ground based AA, so have also included an option to cover this contentious topic

These options all assume that the barge will be reduced to 100 points and keep the current weapons loadout, but its critical hit effect will be nerfed to: unit explodes, all other units within 5cm take a hit on a 5+.

Cheers
Jim


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 Post subject: Re: Dark Eldar Lets Poll 2: Barge of Pleasure
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:13 pm 
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Is that actually a nerf? IIRC that it's an AP hit now. What you're saying is that Armoured vehicles would not be subjected to possible destruction as well. Now that being said, it seems far more logical what that crit does in your example.

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Eldar Lets Poll 2: Barge of Pleasure
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:25 pm 
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Sorry, I should have posted the current critical hit effect in the intro post for ease of reference.

The current critical is:
Critical Hit Effect: The unit looses all of its weapons and has no close combat and firefight values. Subsequent critical hits destroy the unit.

The proposed change is: it explodes. All units (AP/AV/WE) take a hit on a 5+.
Cheers,
Jim


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 Post subject: Re: Dark Eldar Lets Poll 2: Barge of Pleasure
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 7:00 pm 
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ah i probably swapped the crit with the VoP I bet

cheers!

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Eldar Lets Poll 2: Barge of Pleasure
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 7:08 pm 
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Yeah JZ, The Vessel of Pain is: Critical Hit Effect: destroyed. All units within 5cm are subject to an AP5+ attack.

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Jim


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 Post subject: Re: Dark Eldar Lets Poll 2: Barge of Pleasure
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 7:44 pm 
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if you give the DE ground based AA, you take away one of their big drawbacks.
I view ground base AA as defensive formations most often. The DE doesn't to defense.

To be honest I think the EpicUK list really does the DE great justice while the NetEA is just weird.

Take out the kasnarark (or whatever that idiotic thing is called), the tormentor titan (DE should NOT have titans!!) and make the Slavebringer a part of the 1/3 titan/AC limit and you´ve made the list way better already.

Also think about adding the portable warpgate from the EpicUK list which brings a really cool flavour to the list.

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Eldar Lets Poll 2: Barge of Pleasure
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 7:45 pm 
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Also cut away alot of the upgrade options. This is not an ork list. Why should warriors be able to upgrade their unit with scourges? That makes no sense.

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Eldar Lets Poll 2: Barge of Pleasure
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 9:46 am 
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I'm of the opinion that all lists should have an option for ground based AA.


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 Post subject: Re: Dark Eldar Lets Poll 2: Barge of Pleasure
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:22 am 
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Mard wrote:
I'm of the opinion that all lists should have an option for ground based AA.



why?

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Eldar Lets Poll 2: Barge of Pleasure
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 5:50 pm 
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Thanks for the post mordoten.
The intent for this iteration of the DE army list will be to represent the DE as an actual army, to reflecthow the kabal would deploy in a major conflict. As opposed to a raid on an isolated settlement. Nice words, but what does that actually mean for the list is very little from where it is now. A few points adjustments to bring it in to line with the EUK list, but importantly keeping the titan and making the executor landing module a usable and playable option.
Another issue is not invalidating people's existing collections. So the perditor, converted titans and executor still get to come out of the cupboard. This is a lesser consideration, but still very important to maintaining the community spirit of the game i think.
Cheers
Jim


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 Post subject: Re: Dark Eldar Lets Poll 2: Barge of Pleasure
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 7:22 pm 
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Okay. But don't you agree that the Slavebringer should be in the AC/titan section considering it's the dark eldar equivalent of a Vampire Raider?

Also, do you really see the Kashnarak fills a role in the list?

And don't you think the portable webway is a cool feature that gives the DE a unique flavour of tactics?

And for me I don't see the problems with lists being very similar. Lots of NetEA and EpicUK lists are the same (almost).

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Eldar Lets Poll 2: Barge of Pleasure
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 8:15 pm 
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Hey Mordoten,
Im sorry i did not address each of those in my last post.

1. Slavebringer, yep titan/acs section for sure. I think will help to theme the list as well. You will be forced to decide between air cav or ground pounding/webway pounding with titan support. As it will be pretty difficult to get a titan plus enough slavebringers while aslo taking the obligatory AC to keep the tbolts off you!

2. Kashnarak, i do not really see a place for this in the list. It's a cool option, but really used and not really required.

3. The portable webway is so flipping cool. I think it is one of the most awesome things about the EUK list.

4. EUK and NetEA. I have no problem at all with them looking the same.

It seems like we are in 100% agreement on those issues.
Thanks for your post.

Cheers
Jim


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 Post subject: Re: Dark Eldar Lets Poll 2: Barge of Pleasure
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 10:17 pm 
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mordoten wrote:
Mard wrote:
I'm of the opinion that all lists should have an option for ground based AA.



why?



Because people like the option, because you should be able to take ground based AA if your local meta has shifted that way. Because this is an army in force, nota small raiding force.

I can point back as well to the time people were really up in arms when i tried to remove the hunter from the Dark Angel list for a more thematic army.

But seriously, Jim is looking at a lot of posts everywhere about DE, not just taccoms. There are a lot of players out there who play Epic but don't post/visit this site because it's too hard to sign up and they're shouted down by older members


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 Post subject: Re: Dark Eldar Lets Poll 2: Barge of Pleasure
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:45 pm 
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What other sites on the net is harbouring lots of experienced epic players? Would be great to read their thoughts!

And it's too bad that they are so offended by posts made here so they can't participate in the discussion and polls thats being conducted here about the list. Especially since the governing body of the NetEA has chosen to use this forum as their primary channel of communication with players worldwide.

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Last edited by mordoten on Mon Oct 24, 2016 4:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Eldar Lets Poll 2: Barge of Pleasure
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:01 am 
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I dont play dark eldar but i woukdnt care if they got some ground AA i would care if any army got a couple of buffs to get more people playing them. Its good to see more army variety at comps, if it proves to be to strong take it back.

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