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Teleport 'V' Planetfall

 Post subject: Teleport 'V' Planetfall
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:24 pm 
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Normally I Teleport but I have seen a number of posts where people prefer planetfall. Just wondering the reasons behind this?

I understand planet fall you don't take the potential BM from rolling a 1 on teleport, but this can be offset with a Chaplin. Surely the cost of the additional equipment required for planetfall (Spacecraft etc) and the danger of scatter makes it better to teleport?

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 Post subject: Re: Teleport 'V' Planetfall
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:48 pm 
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There are several advantages:-
  • Avoiding getting BMs for teleporting.
    (Note if assaulted, a formation with BMs may be -2 on the resolution, not -1 (for having BMs and for the opponent having none.)
  • Delaying the point where the formation arrives on the table, which means that opposing formations will have activated and thus be less able to counter the newly arrived formation(s).
  • Having enemy formations move also means that the player potentially has fewer formations to target allowing him to concentrate his own attacks
  • Planetfalling formations often gain assistance from spacecraft fire and the Marines may also have Deathwind attacks from their drop-pods.
  • If the planetfalling is done in a vehicle, that potentially also provides cover, some level of firepower and also possibly support in an assault.

Against this, planetfalling is obviously less precise than Teleporting because the co-ordinates need to be plotted in advance and then the formations scatter. However these effects can be mitigated with some thought. Equally the mere presence of a potential spacecraft bombardment can cause the opponent to change his deployment intentions and the initial activations.
I remember one game last year where I deliberately plotted the planetfalling bombardment and drop-zones to be where I expected the enemy formations to be towards the middle / end of the 1st turn. My opponent rushed his formations out of the deployment zone to avoid being caught, only to find them targeted at a point where they could not respond and where my formations could be supported by advancing friends. His face was a picture . . . :D


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 Post subject: Re: Teleport 'V' Planetfall
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:31 pm 
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Thanks Ginger. Still not convinced. my fear had been the scatter too far or off the table. Plus for the cost of spacecraft I always think of other things I would prefer! I have also been pretty lucky in teleport and only once or twice got any BM from rolling ones. Even when I have the addition of a Chaplin has offset it at least a bit

The plotting before hand has also always been a concern but I guess you can drop them on objectives rather than looking to hit enemy formations. Hmm one to try next game I think.

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 Post subject: Re: Teleport 'V' Planetfall
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:37 pm 
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Are you sure they were talking about planet fall not air assault? Never heard of anyone planet-falling (if that's a word) terminators...?


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 Post subject: Re: Teleport 'V' Planetfall
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:56 pm 
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i'm fairly certain that they mean in a thunderhawk or podding on those lists that allow that (old RG and SW for instance)

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 Post subject: Re: Teleport 'V' Planetfall
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 8:29 am 
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Berkut666 wrote:
Thanks Ginger. Still not convinced. my fear had been the scatter too far or off the table.


You just never plot a co-ordinate that would allow this. With codex marines pods you also get to re-position the pod before the scatter, and then choose placement of the first stand relative to the pod location after it lands, so there's a fair bit of slack.

Also, the deathwind attack is awesomewith luck you might BM 2–3 formations at the start of T1 with the pod, then more damage with its cargo. Against a 2+ activation army that's a pretty nice starting bonus.

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 Post subject: Re: Teleport 'V' Planetfall
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 8:43 am 
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jimmyzimms wrote:
i'm fairly certain that they mean in a thunderhawk or podding on those lists that allow that (old RG and SW for instance)


Sorry, yes, re reading the op I think I was being to literal - thinking about "superior tactics." I guess you mean in general - teleport vs drop pods.


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 Post subject: Re: Teleport 'V' Planetfall
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 8:54 am 
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Surely you can planetfall termies in a Thawk?

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 Post subject: Re: Teleport 'V' Planetfall
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 9:27 am 
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Correct Apoc. With the 15cm reposition and the two dice scatter the marines can end up to 27cm away from the drop zone coordinates. Also the Drop Pod is a vehicle (not usually represented) which cannot enter impassable terrain (buildings). This, not entering enemy ZOC and the fact that the scatter dice will usually come up as 7cm means that you can have a reasonable idea of where the Planet falling units will deploy.

As for Deathwind, remember that each Drop pod formation has a separate attack (which is why Scouts were banned from using them; 5x attacks in a relatively confined area for 750 points was deemed a tad OTT >:D )


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 Post subject: Re: Teleport 'V' Planetfall
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 10:32 am 
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If the unit carrying the Spacemarines is a Thunderhawk gunship, then you do not need to have aSpaceship, and you do not need to planetfall/ self planetfall.

A good example is in the Dark Eldar list where a Slavebringer assault barge (a War Engine Bomber) can carry 4 Talos Pain Engines (AV Walkers) and deposit them as if on a bombing run. I generally use my other aircraft to draw off pesky enemy CAP forces, and destroy enemy ground Flak units where possible. The Bomber deposits the Talos as though it were dropping bombs or coming in for a strafing run - see 4.2.5 - Aerospace operations transporting ground units. You can not run straight into assault unless the war engine / bomber also is involved in the assault. You could shoot if the bomber also shoots. The bomber / war engine is counted as being on the ground with a movement of "0" until it leaves at the end of the turn, and is part of the formation it has dis-engorged.

I generally disgorge the Talos off into cover like a wood or ruins, roll for dangerous terrain (re-rolls for walker AV), and possibly shoot enemy if in range. They then act as a fearless reinforced armour shield with macro weapons that can then potentially protect my fearless Haemonculi formation (with Perditors) sitting in cover behind it as they rain down range 30 (x2 for indirect) distort artillery. It makes a good lynch pin for my force and grinds down enemy plans to maneuver attackers while holding weaker ranged forces in the rear. I could assault with them, however this puts the bomber at risk, and I do not do this unless I outnumber the enemy 2 or 3:1.

You should find that you could do the same maneuver with a thunderhawk gunship which I believe is a bomber and a war engine, drop off say a formation of Devastators backed up by a Dreadnought upgrade, and then sit them in cover. The thunderhawk leaves after it finishes it shooting attack, and then gives you another aircraft to strafe enemy forces in later turns.

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 Post subject: Re: Teleport 'V' Planetfall
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 3:34 pm 
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Deb wrote:
You should find that you could do the same maneuver with a thunderhawk gunship which I believe is a bomber and a war engine, drop off say a formation of Devastators backed up by a Dreadnought upgrade, and then sit them in cover. The thunderhawk leaves after it finishes it shooting attack, and then gives you another aircraft to strafe enemy forces in later turns.
Not quite correct Deb. Air-transports including the Slavebringer and THawk must land to disembark their contents (the only exception to this are WE transports that are permanently 'popped up' like the Tau Manta, which are assumed to have technology to get the troops onto the ground). They are classed as an aircraft of type "bomber" to indicate their movement capabilities when approaching and disengaging from the battlefield.

You can land beside cover to allow some troops to disembark into it, though you may find that you cannot get all the infantry into cover because of the 5cm disembarking constraint. I would not recommend actually landing in the terrain as the transport will take a DT test on landing and another on take-off, giving a 1:3 chance of a point of damage, which can be really chancy in a DC2 transport if you suffer an AA hit on the way in as well (leave that to Marine Landing Craft, which with DC4 can afford to lose a point or two :) )


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