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Dark Eldar list(s)

 Post subject: Dark Eldar list(s)
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:00 pm 
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Hi guys!

I made a serch in this subforum for dark eldar in the search and came upp with nothing. Not being able to stay to just one or two projects I would like to start a DE list at some point. I was looking for some help on what other people have found been good lists for Dark eldar.

So please post any lists you've used and a short description on the tactics you used.

Secondly I played a bit with armyforge and this is the list I came up with. I have no idea as to wther this is a good/competitive list. It's just the units I'd like to play/model.

Code:
Incompertus, 3000 POINTS
Kabal of Pain's Way (NetEA Raiders v2.0)
==================================================

WEBWAY PORTAL [50]

KASHNARAK [50]

KABAL COTERIE [425]
4 Incubi, 2 Incubi, 3 Raider, Archon

KABAL FLOTILLA [350]
6 Ravagers

REAVER GANG [200]
6 Reavers

REAVER GANG [200]
6 Reavers

HELLION MURDER [200]
6 Hellions

WYCH CULT [200]
6 Wyches

TALOS SWARM [200]
4 Talos

KABAL SYNDICATE [325]
6 Warriors, Sybarite, 2 Warriors, 4 Raider

FIGHTER FORMATION [300]
3 Raven Fighter

TORMENTOR TITAN [500]


Any C&C is welcome :) My first thought was that maybe there's to many upgrades and I could squeze in another formation.

cheers


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 Post subject: Re: Dark Eldar list(s)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:48 pm 
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I wrote up a post yesterday only to watch it vanish. >:( Grrrr! Anyhow…

Airplanes – my personal preference is to have two formations of Ravens at 2 planes each instead of 1 formation of 3. One for CAP, one for intercept. You’ve got no ground flak with the DE so covering your light vehicle assets is vital. Thunderbolts love munching on Dark Eldar.

Warriors –they are a bargain. Add a Ravager to the formation for 50 points and it’s a steal.

Talos – I’ve been successful with them, but to be honest I’ve always fielded them with something else. In a Slavebringer, or with a Perditor, or as an upgrade to another formation. I think they are going to struggle to reach your opponent from the table edge, even with the 15cm setup.

Barges of Pleasure – the point sink might not be possible for you, but if you are looking to create a BTS that can rock your opponent, an upgraded Warrior formation with two BoPs and a Ravager. That will be 8 infantry units, 1 LV, 2 War Engines with DC3 each, and 4 Shadowfields. That formation will not be disappearing anytime soon. It also moves 25cm.

Other things to consider are the Vessels of Pain. If you don’t have the points for a titan then one of these is a good purchase.

More to follow.

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Eldar list(s)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:14 am 
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Some good points. I had actually been thinking of the 2 x 2 fighters. Barges of pleasure seem nice as well I like to have at least one set of BP weapons, it's somthing I really miss when I play Tau.

The below list is something I'd like to play. Probably to many teleporters though. The plan would be to teleport both formations next to something I'd whish to hit. Scorges would shoot first and be within support fire range, then I'd retain with mandrakes assault and use their infiltrate to hopefully get into CC.

The plan for the telporters comes with a big flaw of course. Being six means they'll statistically get BM, which would mean 3+ initative and 4+ when retaining. Not good enough odds and coupled with only 3+ strategy rating. But it seems fun and characterful to me...

Code:
Borachiu's Corsairs, 3000 POINTS
Kabal of Pain's Way (NetEA Raiders v2.0)
==================================================

WEBWAY PORTAL [50]

KASHNARAK [50]

KABAL COTERIE [400]
4 Incubi, 3 Raider, Archon, 2 Warriors

KABAL SYNDICATE [200]
6 Warriors, 3 Raider

KABAL SYNDICATE [500]
6 Warriors, 2 Barge of Pleasure, Ravager

KABAL FLOTILLA [350]
6 Ravagers

WYCH CULT [200]
6 Wyches, 3 Raider

REAVER GANG [200]
6 Reavers

REAVER GANG [200]
6 Reavers

MANDRAKE THRONG [225]
6 Mandrakes

SCOURGE FLIGHT [225]
6 Scourges

FIGHTER FORMATION [200]
2 Raven Fighter

FIGHTER FORMATION [200]
2 Raven Fighter


Thanks for the feedback.


Last edited by Borka on Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Eldar list(s)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:14 pm 
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Remember that you might not be able to count on your teleporters activating, but they will definitely support an assault. It could be your assault is just a bonus.

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Eldar list(s)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:05 pm 
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Moscovian wrote:
Remember that you might not be able to count on your teleporters activating, but they will definitely support an assault. It could be your assault is just a bonus.

Yeah I know that's the more reasonable thing. teleport the scorges shoot with them and then support an assault with a 1+ ini Kabal. Or not shoot at all but assault straight away. It's probably what I'll end up doing.


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 Post subject: Re: Dark Eldar list(s)
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 10:58 am 
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I have noticed a few inconsistencies in the Raiders 2 Dark Eldar current list.

From looking at various lists I have noted that weapons that have ranges of between 12 and 24 inches in 40K have weapon ranges of 15cm in Epic. Weapons that have 36 inch range in 40K get have a range of 30 cm in Epic, and weapons that have a range of 48 inches in 40K have a range of 45cm in Epic. Larger and varied weapons such as Titan weapons and long range artillery get varied weapon ranges of between 60cm and 90cm in Epic for standard Titan weapons and between 120cm and 240cm for artillery, however most of these have a minimum range if they fire indirect. This has greatly affected my recommended changes. I have not checked out all lists like Orks or Tau, however I have looked at the Eldar, Guard, Marine and Chaos variants lists for reference.


My recommendations are:

Dark Lances would be range 45cm. This would apply to those used by Ravagers, Raiders, Scourges, Barge of Pleasure and Raven Fighters.

Splinter Cannons are 30cm on the Slavebringer Assault Boat. The Kalabite warriors do not this as their Splinter Cannon is only 15cm which should be brought into line with basic troops for armies like Space Marines, Chaos Marines, Imperial Guard, Squats, etc. They should get a range increase to 30cm.

Long Barrel Splinter Cannon is 45cm on the Barge of Pleasure and Vessel of Pain, however on the Raven and Razorwing aircraft only have a range of 30cm for the same weapon. They should be consistent and have range 45cm as well.

The Razorwing’s 30cm range Razorlance should be 45cm, as it is a more powerful version of the Dark Lance.

Venom LV Transports should be added to the transport options for Dark Eldar. Taking the stats from the EpicUK list, I have worked out a fair and decent stat line and points cost for them.

Venom LV move: 35cm Save: 4+ CC: 6+ FF: 5+ Splintercannon – Rng 45cm AP5+
Splinter Rifle – 15cm Small Arms
Skimmer, Invulnerable save, Transport. May transport one infantry unit (except Warp Beasts) without Jump Packs or Mounted; plus one unit of Mandrakes. Units being transported may shoot.
You may mix and match Venoms and Raiders as unit transports, however you may only take as many transports as is required to transport the entire formation. Venom’s cost 20 points each.

Kalabite warriors do not get an armour save. even though Squat warriors with flack armour get a 6+ save, Ork boyz get a 6+ save. I think Eldar guardians, Dark Eldar Kalabite warriors, and Imperial Guard troopers should get a 6+ save as well. They have Flak armour or Eldar light plate armour. It makes them more vulnerable, especially in close combat, or moving in the open.

I can find no other things I would add except the Forgeworld heavy skimmers, the Tantalus and the Reaper. I do not have the stats for these except the Reaper so I can make no comments as to what they should have as a points cost or stats line. As Onslaught games is introducing a miniature that looks like the Reapers soon, and I found a picture of the Reaper stats, I have worked out a rough draft of possible stats for it.

Reaper LV move:35cm Save: 4+ CC:5+ FF:4+ Storm Vortex Projector- Rng: 30cm AP4+ (D3)/AT4+ D
Storm Shockwave-Rng:15cm AP6+
Nightshields – the unit is considered to be in cover (-1 to hit) even if in the open. Skimmer Cost 100 Points each. An optional addition to a Ravager Formation 1 – 2 units at 100 points each the same as a vessel of pain is added. Also can be used as a Partisan formation in a similar manner to the heavy barges. 2 - 3 Reapers at 100 points each with a sybarite upgrade option.

I think these would bring Dark Eldar into line with a lot of other lists. They do not get garrison units, and have limited infiltrate and scout units. They do however have a lot of units with skimmer ability and high speed. Many units have a 4+ save, and they can move shoot and move which is handy. They do have very few armoured vehicles, as is very fitting for the army - glass hammer. I just think the army is not up to date with some of the unit stats.

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Eldar list(s)
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 11:47 am 
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Hello Deb!

Lots of interesting info and opinions in your post. Do you play alot with the DE list? Casual or at tournaments? How do you find it preform?

I'm working on building my DE army but have opted for using the EpicUK list since i think it's more fun and easier to use. Burt it's interesting to hear what other DE players think of the NetEA one.

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Eldar list(s)
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 12:34 pm 
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They have a decent strategy rating compared to a lot of other lists. Marines and chaos marines get a higher rating, however Dark Eldar are about the middle of the road. They can not garrison formations which I find limits my tactical flexibility. It would be nice to garrison Mandrakes, however I can see the reasoning for this.

Having a lot of the formations with moves of between 35 and 40cm (using their transports helps a lot against a lot of armies, especially armies like Space marines which are hard to break due to ATSKNF, or guard artillery lists which have a lot of artillery and lots of troops to sit and garrison (and similar armies like Squats).

Their weapon ranges can be limiting, especially when you can not get close enough to an enemy formation on overwatch without being shot at before you can even get into weapons range, however the 4+ save for most of their LV and Reaver bikes makes it possible to maneuver forces around, and weather a lot of incoming fire. I have found out from a lot of my earlier games that you need sybarites and leaders to remove blast markers. It is hard to rally them once broken, especially if the enemy can get some of their faster units close enough to provide a -1 to rally.

The Ravager flotillas are the most potent formation in the whole list. Their 3 main weapons are devastating against enemy vehicles, war engines and LV. I always take them in formations of 6 ravagers. Raiders should get the Dark Lance at range 45cm, or the option of the using Disentergrators at range 30cm with the ability to hurt both vehicles and troops (must be noted in your list before the game). Other than that, they are decent transports and provide the Dark Eldar foot troops with much needed anti vehicle support. The second most effective formation, and the one most worth its points cost is the Reaver jetbikes. I have used them in 3 main roles 1. Bait to draw out enemy units I want to kill off, 2. to take objectives using their triple move of 120cm, 3. to provide a fast gap filling support unit that if one of my Syndicates sitting on an objective is approached by a larger force intent on assaulting them.

The incubl and Archon are a force not to be reckoned with. their 2 attacks each + an additional MW attack for the Archon/Dracon gives the formation 9 x 3+ attacks in close combat, one being a MW attack. They also have a decent armour save.

I have not used Wyches, Mandrakes, Haemonculi+Grotesques or hellions much at all, so I can not comment on their performance. The Scourges are not too bad. Their main weapon needs a range increase, and they need a better armour save say a 5+. You are paying 225 points for a jump pack formation with only 6 units that activates on a 2+ and does not get the marines ATSKNF, so break normally. I tend to not use them unless I am playing a very large game.

My current preferred list for a 3000 point game is:
Archon leading a Syndicate 6 warriors and 3 raiders - 325 points
sybarite leading a Syndicate 6 warriors, 3 raiders - 225 points
3 identical formations each with 6 ravagers led by a Sybarite - 375 points each
2 identical formations each with 6 reaver jetbikes led by a Sybarite - 225 points each
2 formations each of 2 raven jet fighters to provide CAP and strafing runs - 200 points each
and lastly a single Tormentor Titan - 500 points and the BTS objective.

As to the Tormentor, the -1 to hit it while its shield are up is very effective. It has survived a lot of games and usually by the skin of its teeth (1 or 2 DC left) Once the shields are gone, they can not come back, however even if you have just one, you get one back automatically.

I tried the Barges of Pleasure. But tended to keep them in cover at the rear with the Formation they were transporting (a Sybarite formation). They did not see action as the enemy ignored my blitz and tried to defend their own territory from my fast unit incursions.

I tried the Slavebringer and the Torturer class Cruiser needed to planetfall it, and the slavebringer and its 4 Talos ended up in an enemy controlled killing zone with 2 full guardsmen formations, a Lemun Russ formations, a Hydra formation, a Leviathan, and 2 basilisk Battery formations to contend with. I planned that drop zone very badly.

I have built my own Executioner landing barge, which I think is just the right size, however many people have commented that it is too large.

With just 2 more scourge units for my second formation, and perhaps another formation of 6 Hellions I will have over 8500 points in my army. Most of it painted. There is a thread on wargamer.au in the painting and modelling dairy section that I have started to show off my Kabal of Pain's Way Dark Eldar project.

LINk below:

http://www.wargamerau.com/forum/index.p ... pic=184477

Moderators remove the link if it is against forum rules, which I nhave not had time to read properly.

I think I will be purchasing the soon to be released Onslaught Hellions and Reaper equivelent minis when they come out.

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Eldar list(s)
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 3:49 pm 
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Thanks for sharing your thoughts! Which lists do you usually end up facing in your group?

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Eldar list(s)
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 7:14 pm 
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Deb wrote:
I have noticed a few inconsistencies in the Raiders 2 Dark Eldar current list.

Long Barrel Splinter Cannon is 45cm on the Barge of Pleasure and Vessel of Pain, however on the Raven and Razorwing aircraft only have a range of 30cm for the same weapon. They should be consistent and have range 45cm as well.

No. The design across EA is that there's a -15cm penalty on weapons when mounted on a flyer. The 30cm range is appropriate and if you look, consistent on all lists.

Deb wrote:
The Razorwing’s 30cm range Razorlance should be 45cm, as it is a more powerful version of the Dark Lance.

See above. Appropriately ranged due to mounted on AC. Also it IS more powerful (it's MW)

Deb wrote:
Kalabite warriors do not get an armour save. even though Squat warriors with flack armour get a 6+ save, Ork boyz get a 6+ save. I think Eldar guardians, Dark Eldar Kalabite warriors, and Imperial Guard troopers should get a 6+ save as well. They have Flak armour or Eldar light plate armour. It makes them more vulnerable, especially in close combat, or moving in the open.

You realize that would literally be effecting the entire balance of every list and every army, right? That ship's long since sailed. Fair enough on the Squat bit (wasn't aware). I'd suggest that's where the discrepancy lies, not in starting an arms race.

Deb wrote:
I would add except the Forgeworld heavy skimmers, the Tantalus and the Reaper

That would be awesomesauce.

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Eldar list(s)
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 7:51 pm 
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squats and orks get a 6+ save representing their increased resilience coupled with light armouring, humans and eldar are less physically robust and therefore don't, makes sense to me....

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Eldar list(s)
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 10:58 pm 
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Also it wouldn't be orks if you weren't rolling handfuls of dice looking for 6's

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Eldar list(s)
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 1:25 am 
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OK Jimmyzimms and kyussinchainsI see your point, but other things I mentioned are still very valid. Kalabite Warriors splinter cannon is still only 15cm range. It should be 30cm The dark Lance has the range of a missile launcher in 40K, so should be 45cm.

I had a few ideas for another skill/ability that fits many of the armies for 40K. Feel No Pain.

My idea:
Feel No Pain (FNP) has 2 main benefits. 1 - Infintry formations with FNP receive only 1/2 the Blast markers from being hit by Distort weapons rounding up. 2 - =Infantry units in a formation with FNP can make a FNP roll if they fail their save, or have no save. The FNP roll is a 6+, and CAN NOT be taken from Macro Weapon wounds.

Some lists get FNP automatically for their Infantry. These are Emperor's Children, Dark Eldar, Scions of Iron, Iron Warriors, Deathguard, and some infantry units in the Tyranids list that normally get FNP.

All other lists that normally get an Apothecary/ Medic/ Mad Doc/ Sister Hospitilier, etc in 40K can get access to a leader/character that provides the infantry units in the formation FNP. The character or characters if multi-purchased, must be added to your company/ warhost/ mobs and other main formations that have the commander or supreme commander in it, but on a separate infantry base. Subsequent characters with FNP must be added to added to your list main formations but only 1 in each. Units that are mounted or jump can not have FNP charaacters. Blood Angels might have an exception to this. No support formations can be given FNP characters.

Once the infantry base that has the FNP character on it is removed from play, the formation loses the benefit of FNP. FNP characters will have a cost involved to add them to a formation based on the list. Marines apothecaries will be more expensive as their infantry are harder to break already, and have a good save, while Ork mad doks will be cheaper as Orks are easier to break and have a 6+ armour save only. The cost vary between something like 25 to 50 points.

It is only an idea, and probably needs a bit of work, but the basic idea is sound. It just needs tweeking to balance it out for use in armies.

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Eldar list(s)
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 1:58 am 
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In reply to mordoten. The armies my Dark Eldar list has fought against are:

Imperial Guard (Cadian) against Ocelot - Dave. He won that game mainly due to his weapon ranges, squatting in the cover of ruins on over watch and his massed artillery. I could not get in close enough without getting shot up, and he could hit any of my units on the board no matter where they were hiding.
Sons of Horus (complete with jet bikes) normally in 1000 point battles I have won and lost against Ocelot - Dave,
codex marines I won and lost 1000 point games against PaulJam - Chris,
eldar (Sian-Hann) these have been practice games mostly by myself developing tactics Both sides have won 3000 point games,
AMTL (Titan Legion) against Anthony who only had 2000 points collected I won that game mainly due to his not having enough support formations like robots, knights, etc.,
Sister of Battle was a 1000 point game against Josh. He wanted to use my Dark Eldar I won that game only because he positioned his Ravagers formation badly and I wiped it out in 2nd turn getting the BTS obj and then could out maneuver his reduced forces.
Hopefully I will be able to lend my Squats army out to another player, and then get a few games with them.

One thing I have noticed is that Dark Eldar have to rely on Ravens for air cover (CAP), and they have no artillery. They also have almost nothing that has a range over 45cm. Most of the list either have Close combat only, CC and 15cm FF, 15 cm main weapon, and the raiders and ravagers and a few expensive war engines having 30cm range. The Titan and more expensive W/E units get a couple 45 cm range weapons. This means most armies can out range them and kill them off due to sheer weight of firepower before they can get into their own weapons ranges.

Speed is the only thing that saves many of the formations most of the time, but I found that artillery negates that greatly. It does not scatter, even if indirect and they can not see you behind a ruins. My Titan draws a lot of fire, but has survived every game so far due to is shields that make it harder to hit, and its 35cm move/jump.

I also notice that the Ravagers being my main firepower formations get a beating. Most are either completely destroyed, or they are reduced down to 1 or 2 models. I a tournament this would be detrimental to my list as it gives the opponent extra points in the case of a tie.

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Eldar list(s)
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 11:09 am 
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Deb, I can see where you're coming from with the comments about units not matching 40k or fluff. There are plenty of example in all lists. You have to bear in mind that unit stats are often a compromise between a number of factors. Also because epic isn't officially supported it's quite conservative about changing things (i.e. practically impossible to change big things). Take wave serpents, these first existed in epic (before 40k). they had an unlimited range wave attack. When they were introduced into 40k that wave attack was left out. Epic while still supported by GW obviously eventually changed WS to be like the 40k version. More recently the 40k wave serpent has regained its wave attack but epic won't update to 40k partly because 40k will probably ditch it again (if they haven't already) I think of epic as an alternative reality from 40k with its own rich history, one where some units perform slightly differently. The divergences aren't a problem. It is a problem if units don't perform well or consistent with the perception of how they ought to. Then they might need tweaking. Obviously tweaks that make them a bit more like their 40k counterparts don't hurt.


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