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Refreshing an old debate: Sniper Assault

 Post subject: Refreshing an old debate: Sniper Assault
PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 1:00 pm 
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Hi again,

I read about this in some old discussions, but I wanted to refresh the topic and, possibly, get a final word (if it does exist!); I would also suggest that the FAQs on NetEA tournament pack would be updated in order to minimize the puzzlyness.

This is about the (in?)famous FAQ about the sniper ablity associated to CC and FF values

Quote:
Q: What units may an attacker choose to hit with sniper hits in an assault?
A: Any enemy units within 15cm and in the line of fire of the unit regardless if the hit was from an assault weapon or small arms weapon


This is rather unequivocal. Sounds a bit weird, but that is what is written.

Now, I understand that only Tyranid Lictors have "Sniper" specified about their CC attack; but in this very case, it was never meant to work as the FAQ above, and it is all reduced to choosing a target in BtB contact with the Lictor for hit allocation, and of course to applying the armour save malus.

To be honest, I would not find that immersion-breaking for the sneaky Lictors to apply the rule as the FAQ says. Also they would get a little boost in their tactical effectiveness (I was fancying a punchline like "you never said those Falcons far away were also popping up!"). Of course, I would never dare to discuss the massive playtesting that's been surely done on the list.

So, what about this issue? May I suggest to fix the FAQ so that the sniper rule in assaults only applies to attacks that use the FF value?


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 Post subject: Re: Refreshing an old debate: Sniper Assault
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 1:07 pm 
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Hm, looks like this was quite an unpopular...


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 Post subject: Re: Refreshing an old debate: Sniper Assault
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 1:38 pm 
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Well I think the Answer gives you the concept and intent ..." Any enemy units within 15cm and in the line of fire of the unit regardless if the hit was from an assault weapon or small arms weapon"

So what I get out of it - Any enemy units within 15cm and in the line of fire of the unit ... Any unit ... regardless of weapon or small arms hit. I'd say don't read too much into it. I think the K.I.S.S principle is appropriate, IMO ...

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 Post subject: Re: Refreshing an old debate: Sniper Assault
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 4:11 pm 
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When originally written, I believe E:A only intended 'Sniper' to be a shooting capability associated with the unit, anyhow that was the crux of the debate. However when associated with a weapon, it was decided that this should also permit 'Sniper' to be used in assault.

Allocating hits to CC targets can appear to contravene the Hit Allocation Process as modified by the 'Sniper' rule, so I believe this additional FAQ merely confirms that hits can be placed against any specific targets by the 'sniper', even where they are caused by 'CC' dice.

Don't forget that although the units are physically distinct on the table, this represents many individual figures milling around each other, so it is not unreasonable to expect casualties to be spread in depth across the area being fought over. Or in this case for one individual to focus his attention on a specific opponent.


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 Post subject: Re: Refreshing an old debate: Sniper Assault
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:03 am 
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Hy guys and thanks for the replies.
I basically agree with both of you - as I wrote up above the FAQ is unequivocal (by the way, what is the K.I.S.S. principle? I am still not familiar with all of the jargon)

Now I am also pretty sure of the second part of my original post, that is the "exceptional" CC-only interpretation of the sniper rule that is applied to Lictors (so I was looking for an answer from one of the guys who designed/playtested the NetEA army list).
As I wrote above, I do not really like this exception (I'd love my Lictors to have their 3+ first strike sniper attack to be effective at range!).

However, my main point was about making this exception explicit somewhere on the rules or datasheets. I don't think it is something one should dig Tactical Command for finding out.


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 Post subject: Re: Refreshing an old debate: Sniper Assault
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 12:18 pm 
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/KISS_principle

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 Post subject: Re: Refreshing an old debate: Sniper Assault
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 12:52 pm 
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Got it


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 Post subject: Re: Refreshing an old debate: Sniper Assault
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 2:13 pm 
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And as for your Lictors, don't forget that they only score hits when they are in B-B with an enemy, though you are then allowed to allocate any hits that they scored using the sniper rules.


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 Post subject: Re: Refreshing an old debate: Sniper Assault
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 3:22 pm 
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Yeah its easy to envision the assault as them rampaging through all sorts of enemies and sowing confusion, fear, death and mayhem, etc. A casualty doesn't always mean a smoking wreck of a tank or dead bodies everywhere in EA. They could simply be rendered combat ineffective such as being dispersed or something like a thrown track or jammed turret or other event. Basically"dead" in ea mean out.of the battle for some reason, not just destroyed.

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 Post subject: Re: Refreshing an old debate: Sniper Assault
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 4:48 pm 
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Yes, on a stand of 5 ... in reality it may only have 2 or 3 KIAs, 1 or 2 WIAs and anyone who is not, may be rendering 1st aid, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Refreshing an old debate: Sniper Assault
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 8:24 pm 
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Ok, so according to this

Quote:
And as for your Lictors, don't forget that they only score hits when they are in B-B with an enemy, though you are then allowed to allocate any hits that they scored using the sniper rules.


Lictors use their CC attack ony when they could normally use it (eg, if they were in BtB only with a popped-up skimmer they could not use it), but then allocate hits to any units of the opposing formation within 15 cm from their base.

That is how I interpreted this thing in the first place.
I got confused about people saying (in this forum) that their hit could only be allocated to a preferred enemy in BtB, but I get from your replies that this is not valid anymore. Perhaps I did not read enough through the threads.

By the way, thanks guys!


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 Post subject: Re: Refreshing an old debate: Sniper Assault
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 10:43 pm 
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Don't worry, this particular point has been debated many times over the years, with a variety of different takes on what happens. This problem is caused by adapting the 'shooting' rule to Hand-to-Hand combat.

Currently, the Lictors can allocate any CC hits that they manage to obtain to any enemy unit that is within 15cm of a Lictor - - - - that is until the rule is changed again . . ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Refreshing an old debate: Sniper Assault
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 8:41 am 
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Thanks Ginger,

That's the sort of answer I was looking for!

Good games to you all


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