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There's ugly, and there's UGLY.

 Post subject: There's ugly, and there's UGLY.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2003 11:07 am 
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I've been going over the Ork lists, looking for stuff to get, to make a force.  Is it just me, or are the Orks stuff really crappy looking?

Now I know Orks are supposed to be rough looking etc, but thats not what these are.  The just look poorly made.

Take the Gargants for example.  I'm sure such a large model could be made far better and more Orky looking than that.  The (very old) mega gargant looks like a toy.

Then the vehicles, aren't exactly the best either.

I cant wait to see what new minis are released.  I think the Orks need a whole revamp.  They seem to be using far older minis than the others.

The imperial vehicles are really good.  I was making some Hellhounds, demolishers, Griffons and Hydras last night, and they are very nice.  Loads of detail.

I really hope that the new Ork stuff follow these.


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 Post subject: There's ugly, and there's UGLY.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2003 5:55 pm 
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It appears for Epic A, Ork vehicles will look a lot like the Forge World stuff, which I like, but we'll have to wait and see.  I have 99.9% of all the Ork models (and all other armies:D) since SM1 ('90) and they all follow the re-occuring pattern of "Orkyness" ???, some better than others ...  I'm starting on my Orks from E40K, next ... :cool:

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 Post subject: There's ugly, and there's UGLY.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2003 9:40 pm 
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Getting Orky stuff to look Orky and still good models must be a real nightmare. Personally, I like about half of the Ork models. The latest Battlewagons are OK, but not great. The Battlefortress is a great model, but the Wierdboy Towers I just dont like. But, that being said, I dont know what I would do to make them better. I like the minis that look like badly made speedsters, but the Mek Speedsters are some of the worst Ork vehicles for me. So, which ones do you like, and which ones do you hate?

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 Post subject: There's ugly, and there's UGLY.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2003 10:15 pm 
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Hi!

I agree with Shadow hunter, ork stuff, through the years looks...cartoony.

Its the bias of GW and their view of orks as being a race of bumbling idiots than a successful, aggressive race. In this I keep to the older fluff where they were very vicious and had nothing to laugh about them.

From the older minis I like the Original (modular) ork gargants, but I agree the mega-gargant is sorta dumb looking, but that is from a much later era than the original ork gargants.

The newer stuff looks somewhat better, but its definately a mixed bag. WHile I like the ork "trukks" somewhat, the newer wierdboy tower looks aweful. The newer gargants aren't precisely great IMO either.

The problem is, as I mentioned before, is more of GW's take on them. If they are a true enemy of the Imperium (which they are), I think model designs should look fearsome. Ork technology is crude, but functional.

Stop making orks into clowns...

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 Post subject: There's ugly, and there's UGLY.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2003 11:50 pm 
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You know, primarch, that is why I could never play Orks. GW has gone back and forth on the "Clown" scale for Orks from the start. They have ranged from almost frighting to only silly. Look at all the books from the original RT until now. Most of the other armies have changed but not in "attitude" like the Orks.

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 Post subject: There's ugly, and there's UGLY.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2003 9:50 am 
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Yep, it was one of the reasons I never liked Orks when I started 40K.  Just too cartoony.  despite the idea of them, I couldn't bring myself to buy the models.

With the recent release of Orks, however, they have improved.  The models that have been redone are aggresive looking and mean.

Take the Mega armoured Nobz for example.  Much better.  Just the regular boy is a vast improvement to the type of Orks you got in the 2ed box set.

The Vehicles Forgeworld have released have kept up the trend too (the gunwagon and battlewagon) and I'm glad these are going to be used for the basis of the epic models.

The Gargants still need a revamp, despite the already different versions I've noticed.  Why do they stick with the 'Fat Controller' theme?

The Gargant should be mean and aggressive looking.  Not a weeble wooble with gunz on.

Models I like?  The gun wagons aren't too bad.  And I dont mind the stompas.  I haven't got many Orks yet, so my oppinions are based from pics (not ideal I admit, often items look better in real life) The scorchas and flak trukks seem okay, and the buggies (whilst on the edge of cartoony, due to their 40K counter parts) aren't too bad.

Battlefortresses, I haven't had a good look at.  I'm not  impressed from what I've seen though.  I like the Squiggoths, not sure why.  Maybe because its a big monster, ie nasty b*st*rd.  The Mekboy speedsta are  so, so.  Cant make my mind up until I've seen them properly. And the infantry are out of date now anyway.

I think the improvements needed are to make vehicles and Gargants more brutish looking.  Like they could be hit with a sledge hammer in the face, and not much damage would happen.  Get rid of the cartoony look (something I'm gonna try through the use of dark paint schemes).


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 Post subject: There's ugly, and there's UGLY.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2003 1:47 pm 
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I think that the newer (40k) models are very nice- some of GW's best in fact- Brian Nelson rules :D , and though some of the current Epic range leaves somthing to be desired, on the whole, it pretty good- i love the great gargant and the battlefortresses, and the mekboy speedstas arnt all that bad...

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 Post subject: There's ugly, and there's UGLY.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2003 12:53 am 
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Hi!

I think GW has more recently tried to give orks a more "fearsome" look, but they still need to ive down the "clown" image 2nd edition 40k gave them. Remember the pictures of the wierdboy, dressed in yellow with a jesters stick .

I remember the orignal fluff made they crude, primitive an feral. Not intellectual giants, but a race that adapts at scary speeds to their enviorments and enemies (almost as good as tyranids in this respect). This is the fluff I follow. The make slaves of other races to make the technology they lack.

I think a big culprit of the "clownization" of orks was that colorful language GW pushed for most of the nineties. It was funny, but got tiresome quite fast.

As I go down the list these are some minis I like:

Fighta bommas
trukks
Newer ork buggies (metal, the old plastic ones looked like bumper cars at the state fair ).
Newer dreadnoughts
Older "battlefortress" the new one lacks "character"
Older gargants

Ones I hate:

Newer gargants
old plastic buggies
Old dreadnoughts
Old squiggoth
New wierdboy tower

Hopefully newer sculpts with capture that "feral" style orks should have.

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 Post subject: There's ugly, and there's UGLY.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2003 10:26 am 
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Fighter-bombers.  Now i must admit I really like those.

I'm not particularly fond of any of the gargants yet.  I'm hoping that once I've got my hands on one, it'll change my mind.  I plan on getting one old version, and one new. That way I can decide which I prefer.

I still haven't recieved any of the orks I've bought yet.  Its killing me waiting for them (I hate that bit)  :oo


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 Post subject: There's ugly, and there's UGLY.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2003 10:54 am 
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as a bit of an orky person

my fave models are:

Fighter Bommerz
Trukks (aka Flakwagon with guns removed)
Oldest Gargant
Lungbursta
Original Metal Buggy

my mostly disliked models are

Mega Gargant
plastic buggy

as for

Older "battlefortress" the new one lacks "character"


I found with a little conversion that you can "add" character quite easily and make them more orky.



More pictures of my Ork Battlefortresses

Personally I don't like the FW Battlefortress as it doesn't "look" right for me

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 Post subject: There's ugly, and there's UGLY.
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2003 12:31 am 
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Hi!

No fair Jimbo, no conversions allowed! ???

Converted it looks sweet! Definately so. But I think the comparison is more along the lines of the original model, not the modern battlefortress is that bad, there are worse, but I like the older ones better.

I agree with your choices of likes and dislikes.

Those plastic buggies are the epitome of crapola :p

Primarch

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 Post subject: There's ugly, and there's UGLY.
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2003 10:27 am 
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Quote (primarch @ 27 2003 Feb.,23:31)
Converted it looks sweet! Definately so. But I think the comparison is more along the lines of the original model, not the modern battlefortress is that bad, there are worse, but I like the older ones better.

you mean like this one?



looks over his collection of "new" battlefortresses and realises all have been converted.

:{

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 Post subject: There's ugly, and there's UGLY.
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2003 12:24 am 
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Hi!

Yes, thats one, th mighty "skullhamma and its "squig fuel injection engine", ah thats orky!

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 Post subject: There's ugly, and there's UGLY.
PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2003 3:49 pm 
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Jimbo, what's the flooring made from in that last pic?  Thats not the GW static grass is it?

I currently use the roll GW sell, with the static grass already glued onto.  I am on the look out for other things though.  Ideally I'll try to get something that can be used for both 40K and epic.  So no un-moveable terrain, as it would be out of scale for one of the systems.


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 Post subject: There's ugly, and there's UGLY.
PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2003 5:17 pm 
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The picture was taken in a long photo shoot I did of lots of models, some time ago using a Olympus 101 with lots of artificial yellow light.

IIRC it was a static grass mat (not GW but very similar) dressed with Woodland Scenics flock, in reality it's quite green, however under the lighting conditions it turns yellow.

It's unsuitable for gaming, as the flock will get everywhere.

Of course the camera never lies, but with some shots the static grass can look almost real.



I use a GW static grass mat stuck onto boards now.


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