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Imperial Fists V1.0 [Developmental]

 Post subject: Re: Imperial Fists V1.0 [Developmental]
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:55 am 
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model-wise I've been looking at the smaller of the plastic robots as a potential base, they have very stubby little legs that look just about perfect for the termitubbies ;) maybe with some additions from the plastic contemptor you could build some nice little centurions....

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 Post subject: Re: Imperial Fists V1.0 [Developmental]
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:43 pm 
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Thats what I was thinking of using, with some cutting you could have the ability to make one with fists (for the assault type) or HB or las/gav cannon.

(that might be something to consider in your unit development Kyussinchains, a grav gun instead of lascannons, perhaps as a AP4or 5/AT5or6 disrupt - though the disrupt is stealing from the old 2nd ed and heresy version of grav weapons )


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 Post subject: Re: Imperial Fists V1.0 [Developmental]
PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:09 am 
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kyussinchains wrote:

having discussed with osoi via PM, I am coming round to a single 'centurion' statline and agree with his proposed stats (which I may have had something to do with ;))



Yeah I proposed an even better FF value ::)

I like that they do not have access to character upgrades it fits with their role and my limited understanding of their fluff. They arent glamorous or hold any special prestige like Terminators.

Once they are on a position they will be tough to shift. Enagagements will be risky as at FF they pump out a lot of accurate attacks for their formation size and in base contatc they have the threat of MW (albeit inaccurate)


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 Post subject: Re: Imperial Fists V1.0 [Developmental]
PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:58 am 
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osoi wrote:
kyussinchains wrote:

having discussed with osoi via PM, I am coming round to a single 'centurion' statline and agree with his proposed stats (which I may have had something to do with ;))



Yeah I proposed an even better FF value ::)


yup, let's start moderate and ramp it up if need be, 8 shots on 3's is pretty damn good :)

Quote:
I like that they do not have access to character upgrades it fits with their role and my limited understanding of their fluff. They arent glamorous or hold any special prestige like Terminators.

Once they are on a position they will be tough to shift. Enagagements will be risky as at FF they pump out a lot of accurate attacks for their formation size and in base contatc they have the threat of MW (albeit inaccurate)


yup!

ortron wrote:
Thats what I was thinking of using, with some cutting you could have the ability to make one with fists (for the assault type) or HB or las/gav cannon.

(that might be something to consider in your unit development Kyussinchains, a grav gun instead of lascannons, perhaps as a AP4or 5/AT5or6 disrupt - though the disrupt is stealing from the old 2nd ed and heresy version of grav weapons )


what kind of range are we talking? I seem to recall discussion about the graviton gun, that it has a steep rolloff in potency with increasing range.... I'd be happy to trial 30cm AT5+/AP5+ disrupt, but let's try the lascannon for now then if we need more flexibility we can try the graviton gun out :)

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 Post subject: Re: Imperial Fists V1.0 [Developmental]
PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 10:25 am 
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Game last night vs EUK tyranids (generally perceived as a pretty solid list) . I took, picked blind, -
terminators
tacticals+SC+hunter
Scouts+RB+bunkers+mines
Devs+bunkers+mines
Devs+bunkers+mines
Speeders
Storm talons
Storm talons
Predator Annihilators+hunter
Bastion
whirlwinds+hunter
Mike set up his objectives close together (he had a dominatrix) so the bastion went on one objective and the scouts and both devs spread on both the objectives. Scouts forward and devs behind so that nids would have to cross the mines to get into FF with the devs. Genestealers set up in front of the minefields everything else massed on that side, tacs-LS-preds set up to respond to threats, wwinds on blitz. So effectively everything in a 3" by 4" table half

Turn 1 Bastions+devs on OW
S-Ravens broke a stealer formation and damaged another, various large and small gaunt formations ran up to in front of the minefield and placed the odd BM. Scouts were broken in FF assault and fell back to blitz, Tacs+preds moved up behind devs thinning out the numbers, wwinds battered a gaunt formation

Turn 2 Didn't teleport
Preds sustained on dom+her bodyguards killing the small WEs and breaking the formation, other devs went on OW.
Gaunt formation was repulsed by devs in bunkers who were then killed in assault by harridan. Harridan then died to LS assault, other harridan was killed by the bastion shooting. Large gaunt formation overwhelmed the other devs. Tacs killed a small gaunt formation. Wwinds battered another formation. LS were broken in FF by a gaunt formation
End of turn 2 bunkers had been cleared out, mines had been a deterrent but ineffective killing maybe 4 out of 65+ tests.

Turn 3 SM had left - 1 rallied dev behind the bunkers, 3 rallied LS on the blitz, the tacticals with the dev behind the bunkers, wwinds on the blitz and (off boards) the ravens and terminators.
Nids had a large gaunt formation, 4 small ones - a couple with no warriors left, the rallied dom and 2 small stealer formations

turn 3 Terminators teleported (I'd decided not to teleport turn 2 as there were too many other things I needed to do immediately) in an arc on the nid blitz. Tacs then marched into Mikes half in an arc 14.5cm away from one of Mikes objectives. To claim or contest these Mike now had to break the termies+tacs. WWinds then sustained on big gaunt formation in the open killing 12 stands. Dom dropped back to shoot the termies but did nothing - nothing could now rescue the blitz. Mike measured and couldn't march onto the tacs objective so SM had at least 2 goals. Ravens broke the only stealer formation that could threaten my blitz

2-1 to IF (blitz, take+hold vs take+hold)
Ravens are great, activating on a 1 makes a huge difference.
Bastion+bunkers felt fine , devs survived longer than they would have but were cleared out, For me the list is good and represents well an if digging in with a defensive perimeter. It has weakness but lists should have those and most importantly avoids the trap of making it another Codex++ list

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 Post subject: Re: Imperial Fists V1.0 [Developmental]
PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:04 pm 
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Thanks for the report Steve sounds like a good game.

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 Post subject: Re: Imperial Fists V1.0 [Developmental]
PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:54 pm 
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Thanks for the report, but not even 1 picture!! :-)

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 Post subject: Re: Imperial Fists V1.0 [Developmental]
PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 9:08 pm 
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Thanks for the report and all the help with testing the list :)

the game certainly looked fun from where I was playing, and I'm glad the boys managed a win, it's been a while since the last one!

We'll have to make more effort in the new year to take a few more pics!

I have some tweaks in mind, will get them posted for discussion over the weekend

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 Post subject: Re: Imperial Fists V1.0 [Developmental]
PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 11:21 pm 
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okay discussion time:

fortifications - should these be standard fortifications with IF getting added benefits from their special rule (ie. as they are currently) or should they be replaced with discrete fortification types with fixed abilities regardless of use?

Bastion - currently it's a decent unit, based on TRC suggestion, I'm considering dropping the tarantulas from the unit, and adding a pair of twin heavy bolters (with a FF increase to 5+) you could add tarantulas in as an option, secondly how do people feel about the techmarine upgrade adding a single void shield?

Vindicators - how do people feel about them? at 6 for 300 I've found them underwhelming, I'd be tempted to drop them to 275 or even 250.... we're somewhat 'ahead of the curve' here in that the IF has had six-strong vindicator formations since the beginning

Finally, centurions - what are thoughts on the stats posted earlier? I'd be tempted to swap out the short barrelled lascannon for a grav gun with 30cm AP5/AT5 disrupt to give them a bit more utility if they end up needing to shoot

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 Post subject: Re: Imperial Fists V1.0 [Developmental]
PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 12:18 am 
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Iron Hands have been doing grav weapons ap5+/at5+ disrupt but at 15cm. So far seems fine. Regardless lets coordinate as we'll want to keep stats consistent.

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 Post subject: Re: Imperial Fists V1.0 [Developmental]
PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 1:14 am 
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30cm would be good for gravs.

With Vindicators, why not go the disrupt + IC FF, that would work really well with this list for clearing defensive positions.

As an observation, a number of battle reports seem to be using fairly defensive builds IMO, how do you see it being employed in the siege assault role?


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 Post subject: Re: Imperial Fists V1.0 [Developmental]
PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 2:12 pm 
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ortron wrote:
30cm would be good for gravs.


agreed, especially with the relatively slow centurions.... if gravs are established and tested, then I'll move back to short barrelled lascannons for now

Quote:
With Vindicators, why not go the disrupt + IC FF, that would work really well with this list for clearing defensive positions.


it's a possibility...

Quote:
As an observation, a number of battle reports seem to be using fairly defensive builds IMO, how do you see it being employed in the siege assault role?


bear in mind the list was developed as a defensive list more than a siegebreaking force.... I've not played defence heavy in most of my batreps, bastions and turrets work pretty well to hold ground while you attack

I'd probably use something like the following:

Centurions + 4 land raider crusaders
terminators + captain
terminators + chaplain
6 vindicators
Scouts + razorback
Scouts + razorback
Tacticals + supreme commander + hunter
Tarantulas
Tarantulas
Storm Talons
Storm Talons

centurion formation as my main attacking formations, backed up with a couple of terminator formations teleporting in, enlarged vindicator formation to prep and support, then scouts to garrison and screen and boost activations, tarantulas on OW to guard objectives, tacticals as a decent supcom body guard and general purpose support formation and storm talons for all-round air cover and AP ground attacking, could potentially drop a storm talon formation and some tarantulas for a second large vindicator formation if more mobile forces on the ground are required

after xmas when I get my LRCs and centurions made and some other bits painted up, I'll be trying the big ground assault list out, early on the list worked quite well as an armoured list with decent shooting too

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 Post subject: Re: Imperial Fists V1.0 [Developmental]
PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 11:48 pm 
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been a while since there was movement with the list, but now xmas is out of the way and I'm not spending my spare moments poised ready to go and take my wife to give birth, I've had a bit of time to think about the list

On the topic of centurions I'm torn between two potential loadouts, I definitely want to consolidate the two types into one, what are people's preferences for a ranged attack? the options as I see them are either twin short barrelled lascannon for a 30cm AT4+ shot, or a graviton gun for 15cm AP5+/AT5+ disrupt shot

the lascannon means they can still put out a few decent shots if they fail to activate or want to finish off a lone tank from a formation, however it's a bit of a fudge.... thinking about it some more, I like the graviton gun as you really have to get in close which fits their siegebreaking nature....

is anyone playing any games? quite a few people have said they're interested.... anyone care to share their experiences? (even brief 2-3 line summaries or thoughts would be useful)

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 Post subject: Re: Imperial Fists V1.0 [Developmental]
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 5:23 am 
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havent had a chance to get a game yet with them, I will be just been a little preoccupied.
I prefer the short barreled lascannons over the graviton gun, i dont think its really a fudge. The stat lines should be rolled into one definately.

I do like the prosed change to the bastion as well


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 Post subject: Re: Imperial Fists V1.0 [Developmental]
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 5:29 pm 
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Kyuss as my Imperial fist are coming together can I confirm some of the rules. What is the expendable rule on the weapon platforms (is it similar to daemon rule) because its not on v1.1. Also as regards to the centurion formation I thought their were good as is, with the two distinct types, however perhaps not being able too mix the formation.

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