To Keep everyone in the loop, I formally submitted the following list of changes to the ERC for approval

This will affect all lists using the generic versions of these units (and will include things like land raider crusaders/redeemers unless the AC feels differently)

- Land Raiders to 75pts each, 125pts for two
- Vindicators to 50pts each, 75pts for two
- Scouts sniper upgrade to 10pts per stand
- Land Speeder Typhoons to 10pts each
- Drop Whirlwinds to 275pts
- Thunderhawks to 1/3 air allowance
- Heavy Bolter Razorback to FF4+

I also submitted the following whitescars changes:

-Add Vindicators upgrade to Assault, Tactical and Terminator Formation
-Drop Bike formation to 325 points
-Swap Vindicator for White Scar Vidicator (30cm move, no walker)

please post your angry responses here

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Great news, thanks!

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"You have a right to be offended" - Steve Hughes
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Given the Land Raider reduction, I really think the White Scar Terminator formation can come down as well. So I'm angrily going to lobby for it.

We have 350 points of Terminators that can't teleport being transported in 4 vehicles that cost 250 points as upgrades now. I think 600 is the max for that.

I will also just as angrily argue for a Laserback FF going to 6+, rather than a Bolterback FF going to 4+. It's not a Leman Russ.

I will emphasize my arguments by now waving a hairbrush at you.

https://media3.giphy.com/media/l1J9u3TZ ... /giphy.gif

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In that case the price would have to come down for both. Don't really think they're worth it at the moment.

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Las Razor is very useful in Scouts to give em something to place blastmarkers at 45 AND gives them something against AT. 25 is a fine price for that. HBolter Razors I have never seen tbh.

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Indeed, Devastators with 4x Lascanon Razorbbacks makes quite a nice cheap fast AT formation for 350 points.

I completely agree, I'll raise it with Steve to formally change them to 600pts, they could probably stand to drop to 575 to compensate for the loss of teleport, but let's test that first



yeah it's probably the more thematic way, but a FF4+ razorback is actually decent and may see some use

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Can we just decide whether to go straight to 575 for the white scar termies? I mean, will testing ever indicate that 600 is OK but 575 is not?

They do lose teleport, and more importantly cannot go in a thunderhawk. One might say this 'codex but worse' effect is a pattern and so the white scars could use an advantage on the ground due to flexibility they give up elsewhere. This is reflected in the relative cost of this formation in the UK list (white scars formation is already 600 but is 650 in codex). We're still at the point where there's not a strong incentive to take the white scars over codex or dark angels.

But on the other hand, is that a good enough reason for the same formation to be priced differently in white scars vs codex? Devs, tacs etc give up rhinos/pods when they take those 75/125 raiders, and terminators give up teleport.

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Are the changes approved now?

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They haven't been put up for a vote yet, don't know why really?

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"You have a right to be offended" - Steve Hughes
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All these are now up in the TP. Please let me know if you find any typos/errors/etc.

The Space Wolves, in particular needed a bit of massaging, as there's a lot of type to fit on one page. I ended up removing support packs as the separate table isn't needed when you read the language for the Great Company/Hutning Packs restriction.

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But not white scars terminator changes?

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Not yet, waiting to hear back from Kyuss and/or Steve.

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Dave

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Squats 2018-05-15 | Raven Guard 2018-04-23

Steve has told me he supports 575pt WS termies

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Dave

It doesn't look like the discount for pairs of Land Raiders and Vindicators made it into the Scion of Iron list.

Deliberate or oversight?

Regards

Harry